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re: Is cancelling a YouTube channel a digital book burning?

Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:13 am to
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
32258 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:13 am to
First off, I'm a huge supporter of the constitution. The 1st, 2nd and 4th amendments are cornerstones of our society.

With that being said, deleting a youtube channel is the equivalent of a book store deciding not to sell a particular book, or books by a particular author. The content still exists, it just isn't in that store any longer.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85239 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:18 am to
Bicker over the correct percentage all you want, but the point remains valid. Youtube has the massively dominant platform and they tinker with, demonetize and ban speech that does not conform to a narrow and arbitrary Progressive orthodoxy. All while being under the umbrella of the even more dominant Google platform which enjoys even more legal protections nobody else gets.
Posted by goofball
Member since Mar 2015
17333 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:19 am to
quote:

The content still exists, it just isn't in that store any longer.


The information in the book still exists if you burn it.
Posted by WDE24
Member since Oct 2010
54836 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:24 am to
quote:

Youtube has the massively dominant platform
Are you saying they didn't build that?

Should they not be allowed to decide what content they believe is best for their commercial venture?

quote:

demonetize and ban speech that does not conform to a narrow and arbitrary Progressive orthodoxy
I have no idea if this is true, but if it is, that is their prerogative. As stated earlier, if they are leaving a gap in the market where demand exists, someone will almost certainly fill it.

quote:

All while being under the umbrella of the even more dominant Google platform which enjoys even more legal protections nobody else gets.
I'm not sure what legal protection you are referring to that applies to Google or YouTube that wouldn't equally apply to another search engine or video hosting website.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
32258 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:25 am to
quote:

The information in the book still exists if you burn it.


Right, and the point remains: There is a massive difference in a private entity editing/censoring a book and the Government doing it.
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26388 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:26 am to
quote:

With that being said, deleting a youtube channel is the equivalent of a book store deciding not to sell a particular book, or books by a particular author.


YouTube is a bit more than just a bookstore. So is reddit, Twitter, and Facebook.

Frame it any way you want - but the constant effort to silence and scrub non-progressive viewpoints from every aspect of American through this ridiculous cancel culture is every bit as insane as book burning. It’s probably even worse.
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26388 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:28 am to
quote:

People present their opinion as fact in books all the time


There are also well tailored, carefully executed social media accounts. And we’ve gone beyond eliminating them. We’ve gone after the livelihood of the people behind it.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
32258 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:31 am to
quote:

YouTube is a bit more than just a bookstore. So is reddit, Twitter, and Facebook.


No, they aren't. It's exactly the same. They are just the Barnes and Noble of their genera. Others in the game are "The Shop Around the Corner".

If folks don't like how one platform does it, they are completely free to start their own. And therein lies the difference in true government censorship and a PRIVATE organization filtering content on a platform they control.

Youtube, redit, twitter, facebook are all businesses trying to make a profit. If they deem content is detrimental to that goal, it is their prerogative to remove that content. Government censorship is about th suppression of ideas because it goes against a political agenda, which is usually 1). Keeping the people under control or 2). Keeping that part in power.

This post was edited on 6/24/20 at 7:38 am
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33036 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:36 am to
quote:


YouTube is valuable. It gives a voice and platform to all different viewpoints, yet you’re in favor of censorship and striking down those whose opinion you disagree with. You’re trash


This Is where we are in 2020. If you don’t carry water for the progressive totalitarians, you are canceled and silenced.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85239 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:38 am to
Are you familiar with the term monopoly? You understand that Google ( monopoly) owns YouTube ( monopoly) . You understand that Google gives YouTube a preferred place on its platform, right? You understand that Congress and the FCC have given them a preferred legal status that makes them immune from lawsuits, provided that they do not behave as a PUBLISHER. And yet here you are allowing that they make the editorial decision of a publisher by banning that which does not conform to their narrow Progressive ideology? You are aware that section Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act requires them to behave as an impartial platform for information,NOT to behave as curators of “ acceptable” viewpoints?

Bottom line, our government should not allow monopolistic PLATFORMS to censor speech unless they are willing to accept the legal liabilities of a PUBLISHER. They all have it both ways now which has resulted in a very narrow orthodoxy being promoted, and everything that beers away from it censored, de monetized etc.
Posted by The Third Leg
Idiot Out Wandering Around
Member since May 2014
11744 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:41 am to
Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.

—Noam Chomsky
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
32258 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:46 am to
quote:

Are you familiar with the term monopoly? You understand that Google ( monopoly) owns YouTube ( monopoly) . You understand that Google gives YouTube a preferred place on its platform, right?


Yeah. Bing, DuckDuckGo and Yahoo don't exist. Additionally, youtube has competition in the form of facebook, instagram, ticktok and snapchat. Furthermore, anybody can buy a website domain for cheap and upload any content to it that it sees fit.

I get what your saying conceptually, but it's not grounded in fact. The same group that is on here complaining about youtube censoring content and government intervention is the same group that was up in arms about the government forcing a bakery to bake a cake for a wedding. You can't have it both ways.

It is my Humble opinion that the government should stay out of all matters of speech involving private companies and let the free market sort it out.
Posted by WDE24
Member since Oct 2010
54836 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:47 am to
quote:

Are you familiar with the term monopoly?
Yes.

quote:

You understand that Google ( monopoly) owns YouTube ( monopoly) .
I don't think Google or YouTube is a monopoly.

quote:

You understand that Congress and the FCC have given them a preferred legal status that makes them immune from lawsuits, provided that they do not behave as a PUBLISHER.
Again, this is a distortion of fact. They don't have a preferred status over other search engines or video hosting website. Although, I'm not sure I agree with the law.

quote:

Bottom line, our government should not allow monopolistic PLATFORMS to censor speech unless they are willing to accept the legal liabilities of a PUBLISHER. They all have it both ways now which has resulted in a very narrow orthodoxy being promoted, and everything that beers away from it censored, de monetized etc.
Again, misrepresenting then as monopolies undercuts what is a valid argument. I agree it is problematic to allow them near blanket protection from liability for the content on their platforms when they behave as a publisher or editor in many ways.
Posted by Esquire
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
14389 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:48 am to
quote:

Do we have angry mobs demanding that libraries don’t stick books? Because we definitely have that now with social media accounts that provide inconvenient viewpoints.


That’s because a lot of conservatives actually hate the free market.
Posted by CockHolliday
Columbia, SC
Member since Dec 2012
4804 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:53 am to
Technically no, when you burn a book you destroy the accessibility to that specific avenue of information forever. If you cancel/block a YouTube channel, you still have the option of reversing that action later and you don't affect its accessibility for other people.
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33036 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:55 am to
People would be singing a different tune if progressive viewpoints were the ones being eliminated from social media and the people who express those were the ones losing their jobs....
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33036 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:57 am to
quote:

Technically no, when you burn a book you destroy the accessibility to that specific avenue of information forever. If you cancel/block a YouTube channel, you still have the option of reversing that action later and you don't affect its accessibility for other people.


Your logic only holds water if social media platforms decide to allow the publishing of information they’ve banned later.
Posted by goofball
Member since Mar 2015
17333 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:02 am to
quote:

Again, misrepresenting then as monopolies undercuts what is a valid argument. I agree it is problematic to allow them near blanket protection from liability for the content on their platforms when they behave as a publisher or editor in many ways.


They are definitely more than just platforms. Twitter curates content and has been caught doing so.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85239 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:22 am to
You do realize the term Monopoly doesn’t mean competition doesn’t exist, right? It’s not that there isn’t a competitor out there with 1% or 4%, it’s that they have a DOMINANT position and unfair market advantage/market share that precludes fair competition and discourages market entry.

If you have a handful of Tech oligarchs controlling which information is disseminated and which is not, and editorializing about said Information, effectively behaving as PUBLISHERS , when they are specifically forbidden to do so , we have a problem. There is no way any sane American can feel it is good for this country to have a handful of people in control of our information. Which is why you will see them broken up in the relatively near future.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
32258 posts
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:37 am to
So what you are tying to say is that if folks are lazy and only rely on 1 platform to get their information they'll have a singular point of view and that's a monopoly?

Ok.
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