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Started By
Message
re: Inside story of the Nagasaki mission
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:02 am to Rich Kotite
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:02 am to Rich Kotite
Thisquote:has nothing to do with this
i will trust the guys that actually lived through it.
quote:Obviously we arguing different points so I will agree with you on this
Sure thing, guy. Keep using your 2015 definition of "logic",
quote:
Agree to disagree
1
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:03 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
So you're not going to argue semantics, yet you continue to argue semantics?
Yeah, what a spirited argument I made there in simply re-stating what I said earlier in two sentences.
quote:
There are very few near-certainties in life; human behavior rarely falls into it.
Have you taken an econ class before?
This isn't some open-ended "What if Napoleon had won at Waterloo?" or "What if Pickett's charge never happened?" Yes, if you wanted to be an idiot, you can claim that if you were to plot all possibilities, there are an infinite amount of potential outcomes. Upon hearing of an imminent land invasion, the Japanese may have had a change of heart and welcomed us with open arms and sushi. The Americans may have surrendered to the Japanese for no reason at all after winning in Europe. These are all potential outcomes of human behavior in this environment. Some are far more likely than others.
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 1:05 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:06 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
has nothing to do with this
So the guys who actually had to deal with the fanatical Japanese (so i don't get banned) have nothing to do with this topic? How arrogant.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:09 am to Lou Pai
quote:Which there technically were; not sure why basic logic would make somebody an idiot. In fact, that is why there are many scientists and philosophers that argue that it is essentially impossible to prove causality, but that is for an another conversation.
Yes, if you wanted to be an idiot, you can claim that if you were to plot all possibilities, there are an infinite amount of possibilities.
quote:Not since undergrad, but I studied psychology for 10 years.
Have you taken an econ class before?
quote:Interesting that now you are speaking in probabilistic terms, which was my point in the first place.
These are all potential outcomes of human behavior in this environment. Some are far more likely than others
Regardless since the premise of this thread was that we had already dropped an atomic bomb, and had shown our capabilities, the likelihood of Japan surrender seems far greater than it had previously. Right?
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 1:19 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:12 am to Rich Kotite
quote:They have nothing to do with the quantification--as a certainty in this case--of a post-hoc analysis. How are you not understanding that?
So the guys who actually had to deal with the fanatical Japanese (so i don't get banned) have nothing to do with this topic? How arrogant.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:21 am to Rich Kotite
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:28 am to buckeye_vol
By the way, 41-14 and 84-75
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:48 am to Rich Kotite
quote:Not the greatest ending to two great seasons, especially in football (my junior year there). Thankfully Urban left you.
By the way, 41-14 and 84-75
Posted on 8/6/15 at 3:11 am to ByteMe
So it's pretty obvious that Pkin is Pumpkin, right?
Posted on 8/6/15 at 3:58 am to Pkin
This is a joke right?
Posted on 8/6/15 at 6:17 am to ell_13
Is dooshay gutting that pumpkin?
Posted on 8/6/15 at 6:40 am to Rich Kotite
quote:
And the fact their citizens were brainwashed into believing America would have no mercy and kill them all. Children as young as 6 were receiving military/suicide training. Every one of them would have fought to the death in a mainland invasion.
If you ever get to Okinawa, go to the battlefield museum there. Among the exhibits are examples of Japanese propaganda and the first-hand testimony of Okinawans...who then considered themselves a separate and distinct people from the Japanese...about their experiences during the invasion.
Japanese propaganda was telling Okinawans that American troops would butcher them and use their bodies as dog food. That's not an exaggeration.
quote:
IT has been half a century since the Battle of Okinawa, but in the inky depths of a cave in the center of the island it suddenly came alive for me last June. Dozens of people had committed suicide in the cave, to avoid the rape and mutilation they expected from the American troops who were outside, and then the cave had been forgotten in the aftermath of that bloody summer of 1945.
The cave formally opened to the public a few years ago, and as I shined my flashlight around I saw things that horrified me more than any museum exhibit possibly could have.
There were bones, mostly little ones, belonging to the children -- the youngest was 2 -- who were killed by their parents to save them from the supposed American demons.
The villagers in the cave had been told by the Japanese Army that the Americans would torture and kill everyone.
When the Americans approached the cave, on April 2, 1945, two boys charged them with the only weapons they had -- bamboo spears -- and were shot and killed.
The Americans, at the mouth of the cave, pleaded with the villagers to come out and surrender. They dropped leaflets in Japanese explaining that everyone would be treated well, but no one believed them.
"Mommy, kill me!" shouted an 18-year-old girl, Haru Uechi. "Don't let them rape me!"
The mother killed her daughter, setting off a mass killing within the cave. Parents killed their children, then killed themselves.
In all, 83 people in the cave died at their own hands or at the hands of their parents. The family members of the dead have taken away most of the bones, but they left some as a kind of memorial. For the same reason they left the debris of those days in the recesses of the cave.
Exploring The Darker Side Of Okinawa
That's the mentality the US and the Allies were faced with. And the Allied commanders feared it would be even worse in the Japanese Home Islands.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 6:41 am to Pkin
Pkin is sure one dumb bitch. Hope her tubes are tied.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 6:54 am to EastNastySwag
Yall do realize if it had gotten out to the public an American president had a weapon which could have saved countless lives on both sides and didn't use it he would have been dragged in the streets. The bombings saved lives. The bombings ended the war. Anyone who says otherwise is a liberal pussy bleeding heart bitch.
Hell the fire bombing of Tokyo was worse anyway.
Hell the fire bombing of Tokyo was worse anyway.
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 7:29 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 6:54 am to Pkin
quote:
Please inform me of something the Japanese did that was worse than what we did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Study what they did to the Chinese. You will want to go drop an atomic bomb on them right this second.
Just a taste of the atrocities is this, the officers used to have competitions to see who could cut off the heads of the most prisoners with their military issue katanas. These were both military and civilian prisoners, including some Americans who volunteered to fight for the Chinese.
They would line them up and then each officer would cut off as many as he could until he was too exhausted to continue. After the 2nd or 3rd beheading, their sword(if sharpened at the start) would be so dull that it would take up to 4 or 5 swings to cut off the head of someone with a thick neck. There would sometimes be as many as 25 officers in the competition, and they would each cut off around 20-25 heads. The highest known total by an individual was 47 I believe.
This was nothing compared to other atrocities they committed against Chinese civilians.
I'm not even going to start going jnto what they did to the people of the islands they invaded, or the POWs they captured. I'll simply say this, modern medicine jumped forward by 50 years or more, thanks to the torturous experiments they committed on captured american soldiers.
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 6:56 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 6:57 am to Pkin
they started it. we finished it.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 7:04 am to Gevans17
What a stupid thing to say.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 7:09 am to Breesus
quote:
My grandfather was on the Hornet. I've never heard him talk about any aspect of the war other than when he got called to service and the first time he saw his ship.
A couple months ago he recounted the story of the Hornet sinking the last Japanese aircraft carrier. He was like a different person. Like his mind suddenly clicked on and he was describing the scene to me as his younger self was living it.
An old guy at my church was an airplane radio operator in the war. He was on the last bombing flight in WW2. Or at least, the last bombing flight that actually droppd their pay load on Japan. Many don't know we sent a few traditional bombing runs even after Fat Man. They still didn't want to surrender.
He was also in the European theater on B-17s and DCs. He has some amazing stories. Will be 97 years old in Sept, last time we spoke he told me he was begging God to let him die. He is in too much pain and feels like a burden to his wife. It's sad when a man who has lived the life he has, loses the will to live.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 7:16 am to Pkin
quote:
when I've been financially independent since I was 18
Read: providing mouth hugs to strangers for money.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 7:19 am to Jim Rockford
Saw a documentary on the Hiroshima mission a few nights ago. It featured interviews with several survivors, some within a half mile of the blast. Incredible stories.
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