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re: In general, why aren't utilities underground to avoid loss of power?

Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:40 pm to
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
102489 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:40 pm to
It's the lineman industrial complex.
Posted by HubbaBubba
North of DFW, TX
Member since Oct 2010
49028 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:47 pm to
quote:

Entergy is out here literally digging up people's yards to repair broken lines once a month. My neighbor's yard in front of their house has been dug up twice in the last 6 months.
Seems like that's likely due to poor materials or workmanship. I've lived in my home for 23 years and only lost power ever during the rolling blackouts in Texas from the big freeze a few years back.
Posted by BluegrassBelle
RIP Hefty Lefty - 1981-2019
Member since Nov 2010
104288 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:50 pm to
We have some areas here with overhead and some with underground.

I don’t know of any that started overground and it’s all newer developments with underground. I can’t imagine trying to bury lines at this point downtown, in areas like the Highlands or Old Louisville where you have a lot of historical properties and so on.

ETA: I’m guessing we’d also have issues here in the state with the limestone we sit on top of. I know how quick cost skyrockets when you’re putting in a pool and hit a limestone slab. Can’t imagine for lines.
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 5:52 pm
Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
11904 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:58 pm to
quote:

Seems like that's likely due to poor materials or workmanship.

Maybe. Or maybe it’s due to soil conditions, water, the age of the infrastructure, or any number of other factors that are unique in a given location.
quote:

I've lived in my home for 23 years and only lost power ever during the rolling blackouts in Texas from the big freeze a few years back.

Where in Texas? I’m willing to bet it’s an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Posted by ike221
Loo A Vul
Member since Aug 2006
13852 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:01 pm to
quote:

People on here say heat, but it has nothing to do with that. 90% of utilities in Austin are underground and it’s a hell of a lot hotter there than it is here. I’ve lived in both areas. It’s all about doing things the easy cheap way in LA



Simply not true
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
130568 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:08 pm to
Mine are
Posted by Tarps99
Lafourche Parish
Member since Apr 2017
10005 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:45 pm to
quote:

Higher costs to bury them, but certain areas are willing to do so for better looks and less loss of power.


Entergy finally broke down and finally buried its lines between Grand Isle and Fourchon.

Fourchon still needs its aerial High Voltage Main Lines from the Transmission Network, but once you get to Grand Isle it is much simpler to run the lines underground for a few miles till you get to Elmers Island.

The Main Transmission lines were wooden and some of them were in the middle of the marsh, about a decade ago Entergy moved those lines to steel poles near LA - 1, and replaced the wooden poles between Larose and Golden Meadow. After Ida, I don't think many of those lines had issues, but the last miles to residences had major issues and in some areas had to be completely rebuilt from the ground up. Also, the main roadside distribution lines between Golden Meadow and Grand Isle were replaced with thicker poles that are closer spaced, and have sections the cancelled Keystone pipeline that were repurposed as caissons to better secure the poles in the ground that were filled with aggregates.
Before Ida

After Ida

Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
12133 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:55 pm to
quote:

lostinbr


Good answer. The only thing I’d dispute in your post is “oil-filled conduit”. Can you elaborate?

And to back up your statements, almost all transmission lines run above ground and that’s where all the power begins. It eventually drops to distribution voltage but is still likely above ground. Then once the power gets to residences it may be buried but it still begins above ground on poles.

As an example, my neighborhood is single-ended (one incoming feeder) and power begins above ground and is buried underground once it gets to my street. Even if my street has cables underground, those above ground cables are more likely to get knocked down by trees before they’re even in my neighborhood.

All electricity begins somewhere and it likely is above ground most of its journey to your home.
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 7:01 pm
Posted by Tempratt
Member since Oct 2013
14580 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:00 pm to
In our hood many are under ground.
Mostly from pole to house is buried.

Doesn’t help much when the power poles coming into the hood fall.
Posted by Bamadog75
Alabama
Member since Mar 2017
1513 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:08 pm to
My company does line maintenance for all major power companies, been working around power lines for 30 years . Always thought I might be out of a job once all power lines were buried, but I've talked to linemen and they all tell me it's too expensive to bury them all. They say it's a bitch to find problems and a real bitch to work on underground.

Most rich neighborhoods I work around have them but there's always an above powerline feeding them so when trees hit them they're out anyway.
Posted by billjamin
Houston
Member since Jun 2019
15148 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

they all tell me it's too expensive to bury them all.

Roughly 5x more expensive. O&M expense is a tough one but there is traditionally some ROI recapture from underground but it’s doesn’t even come close to offsetting it the initial expense.

It’s an easy one really for anyone who wants it, are you willing to double or more your electrical bill to pay for it? The utilities would love it because they would make more money, but the reality is most places can’t afford it.
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 7:14 pm
Posted by mudshuvl05
Member since Nov 2023
1807 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

People on here say heat, but it has nothing to do with that. 90% of utilities in Austin are underground and it’s a hell of a lot hotter there than it is here. I’ve lived in both areas. It’s all about doing things the easy cheap way in LA
If you ever laid eyes on the distribution line power grid maps of this country, you'd understand how ignorant this comment is.

If, say, Entergy Louisiana wanted to bury all - hell let's just go with half- of their distribution line network, the power bill for their customers, in order to offset the costs, would cause a revolt with heads on spikes outside the Entergy LA main office.

You've no idea what you're talking about, on several fronts.
Posted by s0tiger
Member since May 2008
854 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:20 pm to
80% of ours are underground and we pay about 2.5x for electricity than our family in LA. Thankfully our heat is NG and our summers are mild.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
15388 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

If the service is a 13.8kv or 19.2 kv system, you don't just tap into it. Stress cones and modular splices are required and are a pain to deal with since the magnetic properties of voltage that high are constantly degrading the semicon areas of the cones.


You gonna do 220?
Posted by BilbeauTBaggins
probably stuck in traffic
Member since May 2021
7279 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:34 pm to
"Maintenance cost" is fat less considering you are less likely to have a hurricane topple over a tree and destroy your underground wiring.

Yes, cost is expensive. It's easier for new developments to build their utilities underground vs. retrofitting existing communities with above ground cables established. Having to build around existing utilities is why retrofitting is super costly.

With the amount that Entergy execs make, you would think they could ease the burden and help the little man out.
Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
11904 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:43 pm to
quote:

The only thing I’d dispute in your post is “oil-filled conduit”. Can you elaborate?

My understanding is that medium-high voltage underground power lines often (usually?) utilize a dielectric oil fill that acts as an additional insulator, helps remove heat, and helps prevent water ingress.

If I’m mistaken, someone feel free to correct me. Admittedly it’s not my field.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
38425 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:48 pm to
You rarely see overhead utilities in new neighborhoods. The cost of replacing overhead utilities is a bit prohibitive, I think. And overhead is (or at leas it once was) cheaper for initial installations in rural areas.
Posted by Thracken13
Aft Cargo Hold of Serenity
Member since Feb 2010
18193 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:51 pm to
if the Fed Gov won't spend money to improve the infrastructure we have now, they sure as shite wont pay to essentially redo what is already out there.
Posted by FLTech
the A
Member since Sep 2017
21772 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:56 pm to
It's very expensive. Like A LOT.
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
130580 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 8:15 pm to
It always amuses me when people put this expensive landscaping in their front servitudes in these newer neighborhoods and then get all upset when they have to dig it up to repair the utilities
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