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Started By
Message
re: I'm taking legal action against the Office of Motor Vehicles
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:15 pm to KCRoyalBlue
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:15 pm to KCRoyalBlue
quote:
Are illegal aliens (yeah, I said it) eligible to receive any licenses, benefits, or employment without having an SS number?
I'm eagerly awaiting an answer on this.
Absolutely. In the DMV computer system they put in 888-88-8888 if they don't have a social security number. This allows them to advance to the next screen in the program. They only do this for illegals but it is DMV unwritten policy.
I'm probably not supposed to know this, but I do.
2
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:16 pm to eitek1
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:22 pm to eitek1
quote:if an illegal walks in to a Louisiana omv, he or she is not getting a license
I'm probably not supposed to know this, but I do.
The person will need to have at least a fake SSN, resident alien number, or a fake resident alien number.
I’m not sure if you can get around the fact that to get a license in Louisiana, you need a SSN. I understand what you are saying about there is no law requiring a person to get one, but there are statutes that provide states room to make their own requirements. (I’m not a lawyer)
How will your son eventually get a job?
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:26 pm to eitek1
These seems like such a weird hill to die on. But to each their own I guess.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:26 pm to jpainter6174
quote:
Well after explaining your position you seem reasonable but is the juice worth the squeeze, and maybe to you it is. Good luck Mon Frere
Thanks and I do appreciate it.
A direct member of my family has participated in every major military conflict this country has participated in since the revolutionary war. They did it to preserve our rights and our way of life.
This might be largely futile and in the scheme of thing probably won't really matter but to my son it will. He will know that it was important to me for us to push back to goverment overreach, even just a little bit.
I don't like bullies and the DMV is doing just that. They are doing it because they know everyone will just quit and go along. When folks figure out that you are never, ever going to quit no matter what, you tend to get what you want in life.
Like I told the folks at the DMV, your job is to make everyone in the state compliant to the state laws down to the letter. Don't think for a minute I'm going to let you ignore those very laws you enforce.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:30 pm to eitek1
quote:
don't like bullies and the DMV is doing just that. They are doing it because they know everyone will just quit and go along.
It's not that deep. Those people make 12 bucks a hour- not enough to put up with your bull*hit.
This post was edited on 11/8/24 at 11:31 pm
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:32 pm to GreenRockTiger
quote:
if an illegal walks in to a Louisiana omv, he or she is not getting a license
The folks at the DMV would disagree with you. They give licenses to illegals all the time. Like I said, they just punch 888-88-8888 in the field for the SS number. I know this for a fact.
quote:
I’m not sure if you can get around the fact that to get a license in Louisiana, you need a SSN.
This is simply false. There is nothing in the state law anywhere that requires this. I've been looking for 6 months. It doesn't exist. If you want to prove me wrong Title 32 covers the law, Administrative Title 55 covers the admin rules for the DMV. The requirement simply isn't there.
quote:
How will your son eventually get a job?
Maybe he flips houses. What if he's an artist? What if he is an investor and just lives off of capital gains. Capital gains earnings aren't subject to SS taxes. But... like I said, he's free to get one if he wants.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:44 pm to eitek1
But if your son doesn't pay into SS, how will he fund my retirement?
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:00 am to eitek1
Your son doesn’t even need a Learners Permit. Just tell him to advise the police that he’s traveling, not driving as the SCOTUS only requires licenses for people engaged in commerce. Print out the case law for him from the Internet. Works almost every time, the cops are usually cool about it and let the people go on their way.
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:09 am to eitek1
I appreciate your quest too, but I don't see how the rest of life would be possible as an adult and I have some questions on how you've gotten this far.
Such as, how did you get a birth certificate (to get the passport)? The hospital doesn't let you leave without naming the child and at least the mother, and then your child is assigned a SSN shortly after as part of the process. I presume you don't use public schools or health insurance either this far along, it is difficult but not impossible to use these services without a SSN.
How will your son ever file an income tax return without a SSN? You can't just send a return in with your name on it and a check; it would be illogical to pay any tax if he doesn't exist according to the IRS.
He can't buy stocks or mutual funds to earn capital gains as you suggest without a SSN (i.e. know your customer laws) or even open a bank account, not to mention buying insurance for a car, a house or apartment, or get a loan to "flip houses" as you suggest. Good luck getting proceeds at a closing without a SSN.
You can get a job with a passport as proof of citizenship, but the employer can't pay you to legally withhold estimated income taxes, the required employee portion of payroll taxes or pay the employer's share of payroll taxes on your behalf. Even if you're cool with forgoing these obligations of employment, an employer isn't going to break the law. There are stiff penalties for not reporting payroll taxes timely and correctly.
Nor can one be issued a 1099 if you decide to be an artisan of some kind. Even to apply for an EIN for a sole member of an LLC, you need a SSN.
I agree you should press on with the suit because it sounds like something I would do too on principle alone, especially since the OMV gives out licenses to illegals every day.
Just go back tomorrow and say he's a Ukrainian refugee who doesn't speak English (and definitely has no auto insurance) and they'll issue it on the spot.
Such as, how did you get a birth certificate (to get the passport)? The hospital doesn't let you leave without naming the child and at least the mother, and then your child is assigned a SSN shortly after as part of the process. I presume you don't use public schools or health insurance either this far along, it is difficult but not impossible to use these services without a SSN.
quote:
Maybe he flips houses. What if he's an artist? What if he is an investor and just lives off of capital gains. Capital gains earnings aren't subject to SS taxes.
How will your son ever file an income tax return without a SSN? You can't just send a return in with your name on it and a check; it would be illogical to pay any tax if he doesn't exist according to the IRS.
He can't buy stocks or mutual funds to earn capital gains as you suggest without a SSN (i.e. know your customer laws) or even open a bank account, not to mention buying insurance for a car, a house or apartment, or get a loan to "flip houses" as you suggest. Good luck getting proceeds at a closing without a SSN.
You can get a job with a passport as proof of citizenship, but the employer can't pay you to legally withhold estimated income taxes, the required employee portion of payroll taxes or pay the employer's share of payroll taxes on your behalf. Even if you're cool with forgoing these obligations of employment, an employer isn't going to break the law. There are stiff penalties for not reporting payroll taxes timely and correctly.
Nor can one be issued a 1099 if you decide to be an artisan of some kind. Even to apply for an EIN for a sole member of an LLC, you need a SSN.
I agree you should press on with the suit because it sounds like something I would do too on principle alone, especially since the OMV gives out licenses to illegals every day.
Just go back tomorrow and say he's a Ukrainian refugee who doesn't speak English (and definitely has no auto insurance) and they'll issue it on the spot.
This post was edited on 11/9/24 at 12:16 am
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:09 am to eitek1
quote:
The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section
Ok. Now link us the part about a learners permit. A learners permit is specifically not a license.
Your kid will have to wait until he is 17.
This post was edited on 11/9/24 at 12:27 am
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:23 am to eitek1
quote:
This is simply false. There is nothing in the state law anywhere that requires this. I've been looking for 6 months. It doesn't exist. If you want to prove me wrong Title 32 covers the law, Administrative Title 55 covers the admin rules for the DMV. The requirement simply isn't there
RS 32:418 states
quote:
(2) Any United States male citizen or immigrant who is fifteen years of age, but less than eighteen years of age, shall provide personal information to the office of motor vehicles when applying to receive or renew an instruction permit, driver's license, commercial driver's license, or identification card, for registration with the Selective Service. Upon the applicant attaining eighteen years of age, the applicant shall automatically be registered with the Selective Service
And guess what information is required by the Military Selective Service Act
quote:
such identifying information (including date of birth, address, and social security account number)
Also, "illegals", because not all cane truck drivers are illegal, or foreign nationals, are granted a driver's license without a social if they provide an ITIN (along with other stuff). I don't feel like providing the revised statute
This post was edited on 11/9/24 at 12:27 am
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:29 am to GoIrish02
quote:
Such as, how did you get a birth certificate (to get the passport)? The hospital doesn't let you leave without naming the child and at least the mother, and then your child is assigned a SSN shortly after as part of the process. I presume you don't use public schools or health insurance either this far along, it is difficult but not impossible to use these services without a SSN.
He has a birth certificate issued from Woman’s hospital. When a child is born, they give you the SS form to fill out but filling it out is voluntary. They will absolutely let you leave the hospital without getting a SS number. We did it. My son went to public school for a while, they ask for your SS number but it’s not required. He is also on my company provided health insurance for the last 15 years. All of the things you stated as difficult aren’t really difficult. This is the very first time I’ve encountered resistance.
As far as the job stuff, you may be right. I’ve not looked deeply into it. Since every other belief I’ve encountered has been false, I’d be surprised if that isn’t the case this time. His job is school and good grades, he currently doesn’t work.
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:37 am to eitek1
quote:
As far as the job stuff, you may be right. I’ve not looked deeply into it.
When filling out job paperwork he will have to fill out an I9. If the company uses Everify he has to have a SSN. If they file the I9 using a paper form it’s not a mandatory requirement.
All of these states require employers to be part of Everify. There is no way around it:
quote:
Employers in states that require E-Verify: Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and West Virginia
This post was edited on 11/9/24 at 12:38 am
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:41 am to StTiger
32:418 requires…
Admin title 55defines the rules for the DMV based on the revised statutes.
Look on page 93 at the top for definitions. It defines personal information as full name, address and birth date. The social security number isn’t part of that.
As far as being required to have a social security number to sign up for selective service, that’s not true either.
This is directly from the Selective Service Website.
If you have a social security number, you are required to provide it. [50 U.S.C. 3802(b); 32 CFR 1615.4(a" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer">. However, you are not required to have a social security number to register with Selective Service.
The requirement simply doesn’t exist.
quote:
shall provide personal information
Admin title 55defines the rules for the DMV based on the revised statutes.
Look on page 93 at the top for definitions. It defines personal information as full name, address and birth date. The social security number isn’t part of that.
As far as being required to have a social security number to sign up for selective service, that’s not true either.
This is directly from the Selective Service Website.
If you have a social security number, you are required to provide it. [50 U.S.C. 3802(b); 32 CFR 1615.4(a" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer">. However, you are not required to have a social security number to register with Selective Service.
The requirement simply doesn’t exist.
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:41 am to eitek1
I appreciate your answers and wish you the best in your quest.
It is apparently very easy for illegals to get government issued ID numbers (TINs), then driver's licenses, bank accounts and loans all day long, it would be a shame if a citizen can't ask the government to follow its own rules.
It is apparently very easy for illegals to get government issued ID numbers (TINs), then driver's licenses, bank accounts and loans all day long, it would be a shame if a citizen can't ask the government to follow its own rules.
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:44 am to Pedro
quote:
Isn’t a SSN needed for a job for tax purposes? You’re making your son’s life complicated just to make a point he didn’t ask you to make. I mean yea the dmv is shite but this is dumb.
Yep, that's a hell of a hill to die on with so many other things out there to get your panties in a wad over.
Posted on 11/9/24 at 12:51 am to eitek1
You keep linking shite for drivers licenses. You need to link the stuff for learners permit:
A learner’s permit is not shall issue.
quote:
RS 32:422 - Learner's license; driving school instruction permit; special restrictions on motorcycles
A. Any person who is at least seventeen years of age may apply to the department for a learner's license to drive motor vehicles or power cycles, provided such person has completed a driving course in accordance with R.S. 32:402.1. The department may, in its discretion, after the applicant has successfully passed all parts of the examination, other than the driving test, issue to the applicant a learner's license at the regular fee of a Class "E" driver's license
A learner’s permit is not shall issue.
Posted on 11/9/24 at 1:04 am to BigBinBR
All the licenses including TIP card, learners permit and regular E class drivers license revert to 32:409.1 for their application requirements.
That said, from the revised statute you are quoting…
However, the provisions of this Subsection shall not apply to a minor who is participating in a driver education course or a prelicensing training course approved and certified by the Department of Public Safety and Corrections, public safety services.
He’s trying to get his Temporary Instruction Permit and will go to a driving course which exempts him from the requirement you listed.
Also, 32:409.1 is the overriding authority on what is required when you apply. The DMV must comply with the law and 409.1 is applicable in this case.
Even if it weren’t, federal law overrides state law in this case.
That said, from the revised statute you are quoting…
However, the provisions of this Subsection shall not apply to a minor who is participating in a driver education course or a prelicensing training course approved and certified by the Department of Public Safety and Corrections, public safety services.
He’s trying to get his Temporary Instruction Permit and will go to a driving course which exempts him from the requirement you listed.
Also, 32:409.1 is the overriding authority on what is required when you apply. The DMV must comply with the law and 409.1 is applicable in this case.
Even if it weren’t, federal law overrides state law in this case.
This post was edited on 11/9/24 at 1:08 am
Posted on 11/9/24 at 1:04 am to eitek1
So you are doing all this to avoid filling out a form?
It is 100% required to get a job. And it is required to register online with selective service,
so now you have to go fill out the form in person. But also, if you want the permit, which requires the information register with selective service automatically
It all just seems like dumb bullshite. Like your wife asked you to send in the request, you forgot, then she got mad and to cover it, you went on a bull crap tirade that "it's never required!" And just stuck with it
Also, SSN is required to claim your kid as a dependent. Are you just forgoing a 2k credit?
It is 100% required to get a job. And it is required to register online with selective service,
quote:
A valid SSN that is within our database is required to register online.
You can still register with us by completing our printable registration form, or by visiting your local post office to fill out a Selective Service registration form (SSS Form 1) and mailing it to us. Or, if you received a reminder mail-back card from us, fill out that card and send it in.
so now you have to go fill out the form in person. But also, if you want the permit, which requires the information register with selective service automatically
It all just seems like dumb bullshite. Like your wife asked you to send in the request, you forgot, then she got mad and to cover it, you went on a bull crap tirade that "it's never required!" And just stuck with it
Also, SSN is required to claim your kid as a dependent. Are you just forgoing a 2k credit?
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