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ill-advised efforts to control alcohol consumption, lead to situations like Max Gruver
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:37 pm
The drive to "just do something" about alcohol on college campuses, and elsewhere, has led to all kinds of ridiculous rules, laws and regulations.
Often these make things worse. When I was in a fraternity at LSU, we had parties on campus in fraternity houses. Anyone that drank, could stay there. There were campus rules to abide by, but they were lax and the the greek system was not overly regulated.
I don't recall any DWIs or drinking-related incidents in our fraternity during my admittedly lengthy time at LSU.
Now they have pushed the drinking underground or off campus. There is way more drug use and binge drinking, because you have to get hammered BEFORE you go out.
Attempting to legislate the party habits of young adults has failed for 100s of years. I doubt LSU will get it right with its latest efforts.
Often these make things worse. When I was in a fraternity at LSU, we had parties on campus in fraternity houses. Anyone that drank, could stay there. There were campus rules to abide by, but they were lax and the the greek system was not overly regulated.
I don't recall any DWIs or drinking-related incidents in our fraternity during my admittedly lengthy time at LSU.
Now they have pushed the drinking underground or off campus. There is way more drug use and binge drinking, because you have to get hammered BEFORE you go out.
Attempting to legislate the party habits of young adults has failed for 100s of years. I doubt LSU will get it right with its latest efforts.
11
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:42 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
When will someone finally say personal responsibility ALWAYS plays a major role in events like this?
This is like saying the Mexican cartels will dissipate when we legalize recreational pot.
This is like saying the Mexican cartels will dissipate when we legalize recreational pot.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:43 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
That is a similar situation to life here in Tuscaloosa. When I was in school all the bars were on "the strip". We could walk from one to another and then stumble back home. A few years ago the city tried to change it up and closed a few bars, with new bars opening downtown.
Then people had to drive around and it led to an increase of DUI's.
Recently the bars have added large golf carts that are allowed to transport people from downtown to the strip and I think it is helping.
That and Uber.
Then people had to drive around and it led to an increase of DUI's.
Recently the bars have added large golf carts that are allowed to transport people from downtown to the strip and I think it is helping.
That and Uber.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:43 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
I kinda agree. Same lines as when parents "forbid" their daughter from seeing a guy they don't like. She will find a way and the results often end up for the worst.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:44 pm to oleheat
quote:
When will someone finally say personal responsibility ALWAYS plays a major role in events like this?
I agree. He was a legal adult and was fully responsible for his actions.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:45 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
They found marijuana in his system so that’s what most likely killed him
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:45 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
you have to get hammered BEFORE you go out.
At $4.50 for a bud light I ain’t walking into a bar sober.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:47 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
I think ridiculous drinking rules specific to greek life are ill advised and generally useless, but the connection is kind of strained, I think.
I don't think Gruver was pre-drinking gone wrong. It was hazing, and it was stupid.
For the record, I'm not even against all "hazing", but asking/requiring pledges to chug liquor doesn't do anything for the class or the fraternity. Make them clean, make them do funny shite, let them get drunk (they'll do this voluntarily obviously) and make fun of them, etc. No need for pushing the envelope.
I don't think Gruver was pre-drinking gone wrong. It was hazing, and it was stupid.
For the record, I'm not even against all "hazing", but asking/requiring pledges to chug liquor doesn't do anything for the class or the fraternity. Make them clean, make them do funny shite, let them get drunk (they'll do this voluntarily obviously) and make fun of them, etc. No need for pushing the envelope.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:47 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Who knew that treating adults like children would encourage childish behavior?
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:49 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
My parents didn't know crap about my social life at LSU unless I let them know. I wasn't unique in this. Nowadays, too many parents of college students have to know every detail of their kid's life and coach them through every decision. I've actually read fecebook postings this week from parents of college freshman wanting to know if someone will hang out with their kid because he or she is lonely at their new school.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:49 pm to oleheat
quote:
When will someone finally say personal responsibility ALWAYS plays a major role in events like this?
While these students may be technically adults in the legal sense, they are generally still immature, the effects of peer pressure and the desire to "belong" or fit in play a huge role in influencing their personal decision making.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:49 pm to Pettifogger
You're right, and I should've been speaking more generally.
And I have no issue with the fraternity or the actives getting in trouble with LSU for breaking rules, but severe legal trouble I don't agree with. Certainly not criminal charges.
Also, severe hazing is stupid. I never had to endure anything beyond good natured fun "hazing" when I was a pledge.
And I have no issue with the fraternity or the actives getting in trouble with LSU for breaking rules, but severe legal trouble I don't agree with. Certainly not criminal charges.
Also, severe hazing is stupid. I never had to endure anything beyond good natured fun "hazing" when I was a pledge.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:52 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Also, severe hazing is stupid. I never had to endure anything beyond good natured fun "hazing" when I was a pledge.
I didn't either. I mean, we had to do some obnoxious, uncomfortable, embarrassing shite, but it wasn't genuinely cruel or destructive. You can largely look back on it and go either "yeah that was funny" or "yeah that sucked but it probably helped our pledge class bond together."
From what I can tell the most outlandish hazing is usually by a handful of douches in pretty bad fraternities.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 12:56 pm to NYNolaguy1
BTW- I actually agree about the drinking age being 18. You are either an adult, or you are not. Same goes for purchasing certain firearms. If we are going to consider 18 year olds adults, then let them be adults- not "probationary adults". Punishing all to stop the few is wrong, IMHO.
But no matter the law- drinking enough alcohol to literally poison yourself is a self-induced death, and no one else should be blamed for that. Real life isn't like the movies.
But no matter the law- drinking enough alcohol to literally poison yourself is a self-induced death, and no one else should be blamed for that. Real life isn't like the movies.
This post was edited on 8/17/18 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 8/17/18 at 1:01 pm to Eightballjacket
quote:
My parents didn't know crap about my social life at LSU unless I let them know. I wasn't unique in this. Nowadays, too many parents of college students have to know every detail of their kid's life and coach them through every decision. I've actually read fecebook postings this week from parents of college freshman wanting to know if someone will hang out with their kid because he or she is lonely at their new schoo
We didn't have social media, period, for which I am eternally grateful.
I did a LOT of stuff in college that I'm not proud of, and my parents certainly would not be proud of. Thankfully that stuff was never recorded, and stays forever in the minds of me and my buds / the ladies.
I mean, parents posting online about having someone hang out with their new freshman?
I moved into my dorm on a Thursday. Parents left at like 4 pm. At 9 pm, I was at a party, off campus, hammered, had no idea who's house it was, rubbing up on some chick that had also moved in that day. After our parents left, my roommate (who i Knew from high school) met some other guys across the hall, we went to dinner, met some other people, someone said someone he knew was having a party, and it was on.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 1:03 pm to oleheat
quote:
But no matter the law- drinking enough alcohol to literally poison yourself is a self-induced death, and no one else should be blamed for that.
Ah, but the folks that think the children shouldnt be able to be held accountable for their actions disagree with this, and theres no shortage of organizations paid to make this happen.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 1:06 pm to NYNolaguy1
It depends. That Penn State thing where they kept letting the kid fall on his head and then tried to hide him is criminal IMO. If some guy at a fraternity drinks himself to death, that's quite a bit different.
Overall I agree that the constant need to criminalize immoral or cowardly behavior is obnoxious.
Overall I agree that the constant need to criminalize immoral or cowardly behavior is obnoxious.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 1:07 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
It gets classified as an "alcohol incident" because alcohol was involved, but this was straight up hazing. Making rules about alcohol does nothing to actually fix the hazing problem.
Allowing alcohol on campus, but having a drinking age of 21, is always going to cause problems.
If I was all-powerful, I would lower the drinking age back to 18, but lower the DUI limit for people 18-20 to something like 0.04. If guys want to drink the frat house, or people want to walk to the frat house and walk home, who cares.
It's not like kids 18-20 aren't drinking, and by making it harder to do, it promotes overdrinking as well as hiding it, neither of which are good things.
Allowing alcohol on campus, but having a drinking age of 21, is always going to cause problems.
If I was all-powerful, I would lower the drinking age back to 18, but lower the DUI limit for people 18-20 to something like 0.04. If guys want to drink the frat house, or people want to walk to the frat house and walk home, who cares.
It's not like kids 18-20 aren't drinking, and by making it harder to do, it promotes overdrinking as well as hiding it, neither of which are good things.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 1:10 pm to Pettifogger
At one point during the continual changes in drinking rules, fraternities were able to have parties at the house, but no hard liquor or keg beer. Canned beer only.
While I am against virtually all regulations, this was a somewhat happy medium that most could accept. You can't die from canned beer.
Of course, this too did not last, as Ben Wynn died in spite of these rules. Now virtually no parties are held at fraternity houses. Now they rent off campus bars or facilities, where LSU has no authority.
While I am against virtually all regulations, this was a somewhat happy medium that most could accept. You can't die from canned beer.
Of course, this too did not last, as Ben Wynn died in spite of these rules. Now virtually no parties are held at fraternity houses. Now they rent off campus bars or facilities, where LSU has no authority.
Posted on 8/17/18 at 1:15 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
When I was in a fraternity at LSU, we had parties on campus in fraternity houses. Anyone that drank, could stay there.
And the overwhelming drink of choice was beer. Banning alcohol on campus has hurt, not helped, the situation.
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