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re: if two people follow me around with guns while im going for a jog
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:20 pm to FAP SAM
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:20 pm to FAP SAM
quote:
This is so different than the events in this case
The events leading to that moment may have bee different but at that moment there is no difference.
1
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:22 pm to HogBalls
quote:
No shots were fired until he went for the mans gun. If they wanted to just kill him they could have long before he went for the gun.
Two hoods approach you with guns as you're walking from a bar and tell you to stop. Maybe you got some liquid courage in you and you decide your best bet is to fight. They shoot and kill you. That's self defense in your eyes?
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:23 pm to HogBalls
You can't see the difference bw chasing someone down in a truck thru the neighborhood and walking out of your house and being attacked immediately?
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:29 pm to dcw7g
quote:
is it legal in Ga to pursue and attempt to confront and detain (with guns) someone you think may have committed a crime?
Quite simply, no. The standard is you have to either have been “in the presence of” or have “immediate knowledge of” the offense. There may be some extremely liberal way to interpret “immediate knowledge of,” I suppose, but that’s a huge reach imo. However, the offense also has to be felony, which this was not, so the rest is moot.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:33 pm to dcw7g
quote:
It seems this case hinges on a simple question: is it legal in Ga to pursue and attempt to confront and detain (with guns) someone you think may have committed a crime?
quote:
The security video shows a person, who appears to be Arbery, continuing down Satilla Drive. Former Fulton prosecutor Manny Arora, who reviewed the video, said entry of a construction site is not necessarily a crime. At most, it may be a misdemeanor, unless anything was taken, he said.
Georgia law allows for a citizen’s arrest in a felony crime committed in one’s presence, said Arora, who is currently a criminal defense attorney in Atlanta. But a citizen can only use reasonable force to detain a person and deadly force cannot be used unless it’s to prevent a forcible felony or for self-defense.
Since the McMichaels initiated the confrontation with the weapons it will be difficult for them to claim self-defense and what appears on the security video doesn’t justify their actions, he said. The footage also demonstrates that police were not far from the neighborhood when the incident occurred, he said.
“If you initiate an assault you don’t get then claim self-defense if the other person reacts to them to be assaulted,” Aurora said. “From the information we have right now, this video doesn’t change the basis for the arrest.”
LINK
quote:
If that is legal, then the only important fact to determine is who initiated the physical confrontation.
Nope
quote:
“If you initiate an assault you don’t get then claim self-defense if the other person reacts to them to be assaulted,” Aurora said.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:34 pm to JohnnyKilroy
If I was stealing from them or committing some other crime and they are holding me then yes. Like I’ve said we don’t know the whole story here. I’m not saying he was committing a crime and I’m not saying he wasn’t just flat out murdered. I’m saying let’s get the whole story before we scream the rednecks gunned down a harmless black kid just out exercising because of his color.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:35 pm to HogBalls
quote:
If I was stealing from them or committing some other crime and they are holding me then yes.
That's not what I asked. Answer my question. Don't bring an any additional facts. It's a simple question.
This post was edited on 5/9/20 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:36 pm to HogBalls
quote:
Say someone is breaking in your vehicle tonight and you walk outside with a pistol to stop him. When he charges you going after your pistol what are you going to do?
If you kill him are you a murderer?
Or, if you can, you can be honest about how it went down. He didn't charge the man out of the blue. He ran around the opposite side of the truck to evade and escape. The armed man went across in front of the truck to cut him off, forcing a confrontation.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 4:38 pm to HogBalls
quote:
I’m saying let’s get the whole story before we scream the rednecks gunned down a harmless black kid just out exercising because of his color.
quote:
The video shows a man wearing a white shirt and shorts, who appears to be Arbery, 25, walking down Satilla Drive on that Sunday afternoon. It shows the man walk into the garage of a house under construction and then walk around back of the house. The tape indicates that man was on the construction site less than five minutes, much of the time out of view of the camera. He did not appear to take anything from the house.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:00 pm to Kujo
quote:
caller indicated a "black guy" in a "white T-shirt" was in Satilla Shores on a property under construction..."He’s been caught on the camera a bunch before ... It’s kind of an ongoing thing out here,” the caller says.
Any context to someone going on the construction site? New construction? Were materials or tools missing? I frequently walk in houses that are being built. Obviously, I wouldn't do it if the home were occupied and only being remodeled. I've also built several houses and it's very common for people to just go in the home to poke around. It's pretty harmless for the most part. I can't imagine being the person 911 b/c a black guy was checking out a job site.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:05 pm to notbilly
Looks like the jogger narrative is dead
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:08 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
That's not what I asked. Answer my question. Don't bring an any additional facts. It's a simple question.
In your scenario no, that’s not self defense. We don’t know the whole story here though. We can’t convict or release these guys on a 15 second video clip.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:10 pm to HogBalls
quote:
Like I’ve said we don’t know the whole story here. I’m not saying he was committing a crime and I’m not saying he wasn’t just flat out murdered. I’m saying let’s get the whole story before we scream the rednecks gunned down a harmless black kid just out exercising because of his color.
Hypothetically speaking, let’s say it was a white guy jogging and two black guys in a truck. And let’s say the white guy did successfully disarm one of the black guys, and shot them both dead. The same crowd that’s running around right now saying “they were defending themselves” and “let the facts come out” would instead be saying “play stupid games..” and “hero”. I’m as fed up with BLM as anyone. But BLM has driven some of you people to defend the indefensible.
People who hold suspected thieves up at gunpoint aren’t heroes; they’re idiots and they are a danger to society. There is a reason police wear uniforms and carry badges. There is a reason we have a justice system. There is a reason we have sentencing guidelines, due process rights, and the 8th amendment. Letting civilians take the law into their own hands and become judge/jury/executioner both encourages others to do the same and undermines the actual police and criminal justice system.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:11 pm to Strannix
quote:
Looks like the jogger narrative is dead
Not as dead as the jogger.
How many ways can you try to justify a murder?
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:13 pm to HogBalls
quote:
We don’t know the whole story here though.
We know the suspects side of the story as he told it to police. Although it was full of lies, I'm going to make an assumption that McMichaels' lies weren't an effort to paint himself and his son in a WORSE light than reality.
So going off the video, and his own words in the police report and 911 call, there was nothing to justify their actions.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:14 pm to Korkstand
I didn’t believe that narrative from the start. It still looks like murder to me. But lying and/or creating that narrative only allows for shite like this to happen where idiots will now try to use it to defend the white guys’ actions.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:14 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Not as dead as the jogger.
How many ways can you try to justify a murder
You're responding to a guy who just makes shite up to justify the killing. Not gonna get anywhere with those people.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:15 pm to oleyeller
quote:
Just dont be out stealing shite and you wont have this problem
[Assumes facts not in evidence]
Go home and frick your daughter and call it a day dude.
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:24 pm to AlonsoWDC
Alright fellas, I’m on the ground. Just drove by where it happened. Just found out this is in Brunswick where I’m working currently.
AMA
AMA
Posted on 5/9/20 at 5:25 pm to AlonsoWDC
quote:Umm, video just has been released to the AJC of him walking through the home under construction looking for stuff and being chased out.....
[Assumes facts not in evidence]
Once again, I don’t know how people just go full retard and believe 100% the first part of a story that is released
This post was edited on 5/9/20 at 5:27 pm
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