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Started By
Message
re: If someone takes the China Virus Vaccine, why continue wearing masks?
Posted on 12/15/20 at 10:29 am to Nature Boy
Posted on 12/15/20 at 10:29 am to Nature Boy
quote:
No mRNA vaccine has been widely produced or used in large quantities, ever. Am I wrong about this?
No.
That doesn't mean they haven't been extensively researched though.
And the reasons why they haven't ever went to trial before isn't because they were deemed unsafe.
1
Posted on 12/15/20 at 10:31 am to S1C EM
quote:
Using ANY med in large quantities for testing is not typical. That’s why you have trials.
My point is that mass production predated the completion of trials. By many months. A huge stockpile of this product was already made and in storage well before testing of this very specific product was complete. The manufacturers bet on their product testing being successful.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 10:35 am to Nature Boy
quote:
The manufacturers bet on their product testing being successful.
Yeah. Because of decades of research.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 10:44 am to Salmon
quote:
That doesn't mean they haven't been extensively researched though.
I know that mRNA vaccines in general have been researched for many years. But they have never been used on humans in any kind of significant numbers. There is little to no reviewed research on long term effects, etc. Yet in this case, for a specific coronavirus, with less than a years' trial of this particular vaccine (amazingly, at least three manufacturers have each developed their own 'recipe', independently from one another), it will be strongly encouraged and in many cases forced upon billions of people around the world in very short order.
You don't need a tinfoil hat to come up with a list of very reasonable and basic concerns one might have before having themselves injected.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 10:51 am to Nature Boy
quote:
You don't need a tinfoil hat to come up with a list of very reasonable and basic concerns one might have before having themselves injected.
I don't care if you don't want to get the vaccine. That's your choice. As a person that believes herd immunity for viruses is always a good a thing, its frustrating to me how many people refuse vaccines, mostly based on not understanding herd immunity or using statistical outliers.
Just don't spread misinformation.
mRNA vaccines have been heavily researched. We almost had one for SARS (which is a coronovirus) but SARS petered out and we never got enough people to run trials. Funding also dried up.
Instead of pushing fear, why not focus on the actual achievement?
Posted on 12/15/20 at 11:03 am to Nature Boy
quote:
There is little to no reviewed research on long term effects, etc.
This is true for MANY things you put into your body, from food and beverages, to drugs, to shite you can inhale (vape, anyone)? It’s also true that based on the information we have today, you are far more likely to have long-term complications from a severe bout of COVID than any of these vaccines. But you do you. It’s certainly your choice.
Can’t speak for other countries, but it won’t be mandated here. That said, all of the doctors I know have stated they are getting it, without any question. You can follow the lead of people smarter than you in this area, or not.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 11:06 am to Salmon
quote:
Just don't spread misinformation.
mRNA vaccines have been heavily researched. We almost had one for SARS (which is a coronovirus) but SARS petered out and we never got enough people to run trials. Funding also dried up.
Instead of pushing fear, why not focus on the actual achievement?
I have not spread misinformation. I have only stated concerns based on facts.
I also don't intend to push fear. What I'd like to see is a healthy level of skepticism. I think it's reasonable to hold our leadership accountable to some degree, rather than just accepting this whole "shut up and take the shot because we know better than you" mentality. We're talking about human health, which is profoundly personal and valuable to the individual.
And this whole "That's your choice." statement is debatable. It will likely be challenged in the courts soon. There are many who think that most, if not all people can and should be required to take this vaccine (and who knows what else in the future), regardless of health, age, risk factors, etc. in order to participate in normal life.
I'm not anti-vax. I just think it's a lot to expect people to simply take it all on faith. The PR campaign is underway. I just wish it was aimed at education based on facts, appealing or unappealing, instead of showmanship, lectures, and assumptions.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 11:15 am to Nature Boy
quote:
I have not spread misinformation. I have only stated concerns based on facts.
You have continually posted about lack of research and testing. You have suggested that the testing was rushed or not at all extensive. You have also heavily implied that the vaccines were guaranteed to be deemed safe, even if they were not safe.
quote:
What I'd like to see is a healthy level of skepticism.
Skepticism is fine as long as it is based on actual facts.
Most of the skepticism is based on misinformation or statistical outliers.
quote:
And this whole "That's your choice." statement is debatable. It will likely be challenged in the courts soon.
I have not seen a single state say that the vaccine will be mandatory.
quote:
I'm not anti-vax
Except you parrot all the anti-vax talking points.
quote:
I just think it's a lot to expect people to simply take it all on faith.
Anytime you put anything that you didn't produce in your body, you are taking it all on faith.
quote:
I just wish it was aimed at education based on facts
Most of it is...some of y'all just choose to only focus on the negative.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 11:29 am to Nature Boy
quote:
The manufacturers bet on their product testing being successful.
They bet on it with government backing. They had a built-in hedge on their worst-case loss.
They have absolutely no interest in causing a mass vaccine-caused health crisis with a bad vaccine. They would absolutely dump their stock of bad vaccine and eat the short-term loss versus permanently destroying their companies through a combination of lawsuits and loss of public faith in their products.
This post was edited on 12/15/20 at 11:36 am
Posted on 12/15/20 at 11:37 am to Salmon
quote:
You have suggested that the testing was rushed
Umm... it kinda was. Is that not a fact? This is a 'novel' coronavirus (all viruses are novel at some point, by the way), which was only identified over the last year or so, so it was impossible to create and test a vaccine specific to this one prior to it being identified. So testing specific to this virus can only be as old as the virus itself.
quote:
You have also heavily implied that the vaccines were guaranteed to be deemed safe
We are told, verbatim, over and over again, that these vaccines (there are multiple) are "both safe, and effective" by every politician and talking head on TV, without qualification. This, also, is a fact.
quote:
even if they were not safe.
Neither you or I know if they are safe or not. They probably are, but they might not be. We cannot know yet because not enough time has passed for enough testing to prove one way or another.
quote:
I have not seen a single state say that the vaccine will be mandatory.
Not yet. This is a real concern that has yet to be shot down by those in power. I wouldn't suggest holding your breath waiting for that notion to be flatly and permanently removed from the table. The door will remain open to mandates.
quote:
Except you parrot all the anti-vax talking points.
I've got no issue with tried and true vaccines that have been in use for many decades with great success. This one is different than the others. It is not yet tried and true, and it is a different type of vaccine than has ever been used before. This is another fact.
quote:
Anytime you put anything that you didn't produce in your body, you are taking it all on faith.
True. But I am not required to put anything I did not produce into my body in order to fly on an airplane, gain entry into another country, or attend a concert. This is a real fear that has yet to be addressed, and people are rightfully concerned that this idea is already being explored, and has been for a while now, in broad daylight.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 11:57 am to Nature Boy
quote:
Neither you or I know if they are safe or not. They probably are, but they might not be.
The probability of them being seriously unsafe and that being unknown after Phase 3 trials is so small that it’s not even worth worrying about.
I can understand a 25 year old healthy person thinking that the risk of a serious illness from COVID is so small that it isn’t worth the time to go to the CVS to get a shot. I can’t understand anyone actually being nervous about the shot itself.
quote:
Not yet. This is a real concern that has yet to be shot down by those in power. I wouldn't suggest holding your breath waiting for that notion to be flatly and permanently removed from the table. The door will remain open to mandates.
That would be very, very unconstitutional in my understanding.
quote:
I've got no issue with tried and true vaccines that have been in use for many decades with great success.
They didn’t get to be tried and true without people taking them.
Posted on 12/15/20 at 12:11 pm to kingfish225
quote:
That’s not what he said but ok
“Obviously, with a 90-plus percent effective vaccine, you could feel much more confident” about not getting the virus, Fauci told Tapper. “But I would recommend to people to not abandon all public health measures just because you have been vaccinated.” Those fundamentals include: universal wearing of masks, maintaining physical distance, avoiding large crowds, doing more outdoor activities and washing hands frequently.
Because “even though, for the general population, it might be 90[%] to 95% effective,” said Fauci, “you don’t necessarily know, for you, how effective it is.” Even at those success rates, about 5% to 10% of people immunized may still get the virus.
CNBC
Posted on 12/15/20 at 12:18 pm to mauser
so these means mask forever. Not going to take the vaccince if I still have to do everything I have been doing for a year.
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