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re: How COVID cases are defined and counted by the CDC - this will piss you off
Posted on 7/30/20 at 2:01 pm to theunknownknight
Posted on 7/30/20 at 2:01 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
and, as suspected, I see LA is not separating them out.
And we are to believe the numbers?
Well, testing has some interesting setbacks.
So, for instance, the PCR testing sensitivity has been reported by my local pathologist to be in the 70-85% sensitivity range.
English: out of 20 people who definitely have the virus, the test will show 14-17 positives.
When I have someone in my office that got sick 1 day after being in contact with a household contact who tested positive, I know that testing them and only counting the ones who test positive will artificially lower those numbers. It also doesn't change what needs to be done for the patient in front of me.
It's an inherent flaw in epidemiology and public health:
1) test only will result in wrong numbers. In the setting of PCR tests, you can generally assume no false positives, but false negatives (and with the test in my area, a pretty good false negative rate). In the setting of other types of tests, you can increase the sensitivity (fewer false negatives) but you're going to start trickling in false positives
2) suspicion only will give a different false number. Could be high, could be low. Could be pretty close to accurate. Depends on actual amount of disease present, how aware the clinical community is, and how easily identifiable the clinical illness is. So, for chicken pox, this is appropriate and pretty accurate. For new disease for which no unique symptoms or clinical identifiers exist, it's probably not the best.
There are special codes I use for diagnosis based on a positive test (u07.1) vs suspicion due to close contact (z20.828). There either is or is talked about another emergency "u" code "u07.2" (I think) that is either talked about and not integrated into my coding software, talked about and never implemented, or not yet deployed meant to be used more or less for when a doc is "pretty sure" you have it.
The problem with all of this is that it doesn't actually effect the doctor-patient level of care. That is a super fragmented system that gets reported on paper or in 100+ electronic forms that have to all be able to get data to the epidemiologist for their use.
The problem is that is a slow process, the epidemiologists/public health experts know this, so they really do understand that they aren't working with 100% accurate numbers but do their best to come up with an accurate estimate. They will essentially always be wrong. But they have to try to get decent estimates, and that is usually going to involve "hard positives" from testing in conjunction with "best clinical guess" to try to get a more representative number.
How nefarious those in power are with the estimates is another issue entirely, but the data collection itself will always be less than 100% accurate from a single source, and I don't think that anyone who actually collects and uses the data would pretend it was. But the estimates will improve over time and, ideally, we have a benign and benevolent enforcer of policy based on bad data or, at the very least, understand where the shortcomings are.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 3:02 pm to theunknownknight
If you are claiming that deaths being attributed to COVID are not really a result of COVID, how do you explain all the excess deaths?
LINK
If anything, COVID deaths may be undercounted.
quote:
Around the country, 140,700 more people have died from March 1 through June 27 than expected based on average deaths in previous years — but only about 80% of those can be directly attributed to the coronavirus, according to study author Dan Weinberger, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health. The remaining 26,000 people are part of the deadly collateral of being sick and vulnerable during a pandemic.
quote:
In Louisiana, 3,800 more people have died during that period than what would normally be expected, based on averages from the last six years, according to early analyses of death data. Of those, COVID-19 accounts for a staggering 2,848 deaths, according to an updated analysis by Yale School of Public Health originally published in the Journal of the American Medical Association Internal Medicine that reviewed data from March 1 to June 27 of this year.
quote:
“Some of those are probably COVID deaths that were not recorded,” said Weinberger.
LINK
If anything, COVID deaths may be undercounted.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 3:43 pm to theunknownknight
quote:No clue. I live in Atlanta. All the data I see is from ATL/GA/USA
How's LA doing it? All I could find is probable deaths and "cases"
Posted on 7/30/20 at 6:05 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
The problem is that is a slow process, the epidemiologists/public health experts know this, so they really do understand that they aren't working with 100% accurate numbers but do their best to come up with an accurate estimate. They will essentially always be wrong. But they have to try to get decent estimates
This is the thing that blows my mind about the whole COVID testing/counting debate. People are screaming at each other about data errors in the 5-10% range when the epidemiologists’ estimates are probably +/- 30%.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 6:07 pm to ChiSaint
quote:
If anything, COVID deaths may be undercounted.
Aren't opiod overdoses up dramatically more? Something like 50% or some shite?
Those account for 35k/6 months so an extra 15k is easy to explain.
That's just opiod deaths. Doesn't take into account increased suicide or increased deaths due to delayed treatment.
This post was edited on 7/30/20 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 7/30/20 at 6:10 pm to theunknownknight
They said this in April. They also split the deaths up with covid only and had the covid+pneumonia+influenza deaths listed as well.
And of course the news and the cdc use the big number front and center.
And of course the news and the cdc use the big number front and center.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 6:14 pm to TH03
quote:
Death counts are based on death certificates and not what is reported to the CDC.
Ahh, but death certificates are already sketchy to begin with. And it will say if covid was present, even if you drank yourself to death or died from heart attack and already had heart issues prior to all this.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 6:15 pm to dgnx6
How will this person be counted?


Posted on 7/30/20 at 6:17 pm to ChiSaint
Excess deaths? People scared to leave homes, the rising number of murders during the protests.
Look at New Orleans. We are about to break our year over year decline in murders for the first time since pre katrina.
Look at New Orleans. We are about to break our year over year decline in murders for the first time since pre katrina.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 6:19 pm to LSUJML
I would bet it would be counted if covid is present at her death.
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