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Started By
Message
How are the NOLA pump stations not on the grid?
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:04 am
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:04 am
I can totally understand having a stand alone power plant as a back-up to a grid failure. It just seems idiotic to not have the plants fed by the grid.
Now I don't know the power requirements of the pumps off hand, but do know that Voltages can be converted to what is needed.
I know it isn't something like 600v DC like the street car. I get why that isn't hooked into the AC system.
But what powers the pumps?
Should they not have the Grid as the source of primary power and then the power plant as needed?
Then I would hope diesel generators if the above two failed.
The fact that a small fire shuts off all the pumps, makes the BILLIONS spent in post katrina Repairs seem useless, as hell the pumps won't even work if a 100 year old transformer goes out.
Now I don't know the power requirements of the pumps off hand, but do know that Voltages can be converted to what is needed.
I know it isn't something like 600v DC like the street car. I get why that isn't hooked into the AC system.
But what powers the pumps?
Should they not have the Grid as the source of primary power and then the power plant as needed?
Then I would hope diesel generators if the above two failed.
The fact that a small fire shuts off all the pumps, makes the BILLIONS spent in post katrina Repairs seem useless, as hell the pumps won't even work if a 100 year old transformer goes out.
7
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:05 am to Napoleon
quote:
what powers the pumps?
Right now? Nothing.
Ask the current acting head and president of the Sewage and Water Board: Mitch Landrieu.
Or
The mayor of the city: Mitch Landrieu
Or
The man responsible for ensuring the companies in charge of cleaning and maintaining the pumps are doing their jobs: Mitch Landrieu.
Or
The guy who is in charge of making sure the funding is available for these massive projects: Mitch Landrieu
Or
Tthe Lieutenant Governer of Louisiana after Katrina who oversaw these projects: Mitch Landrieu
Or
The Representative for the 89th and 90th districts to the Louisiana State Legislature from 1988-2004: Mitch Landrieu
I can't figure out who's fault this is but I know from hearing Mitch speak that it's not his fault and he'll get out the bottom of it so I'm confident.
You know who else you could ask about or archaic system that's needed upgrades since the turn of the 20th century:
Louisiana state legislature representative 55 years ago: Moon Landrieu
Or
Head of City Council, At Large Council Member 50 year ago: Moon Landrieu
Or
The President of the Sewage and Water Board 47 years ago: Moon Landrieu
Or
The mayor 47 year ago: Moon Landrieu
Or
The US Secretary of housing and urban development 37 years ago: Moon Landrieu
This post was edited on 8/10/17 at 11:01 am
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:07 am to Napoleon
I guess because there's a higher chance that the grid will be compromised when the pumps would need to be used. Someone linked an RFP in another thread that said the power company shuts down grids when winds exceed 40 mph.
You would think they would have a backup generator, though.
You would think they would have a backup generator, though.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:07 am to Napoleon
Can I get a solar or wind backup??
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:08 am to upgrayedd
I get that. I would think you have Grid power first, then your private generator then back up generators.
Looks like they have no backups and no grid connection other than basic utilities.
Looks like they have no backups and no grid connection other than basic utilities.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:10 am to upgrayedd
quote:
You would think they would have a backup generator, though
Some of them do, I don't know why these don't. From Fox 8:
Pumping stations in Algiers, New Orleans East and Lower Ninth Ward are operating off of a separate power source and therefore are not impacted by this outage.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:12 am to Packer
quote:
Pumping stations in Algiers, New Orleans East and Lower Ninth Ward are operating off of a separate power source and therefore are not impacted by this outage.
Gotta keep that voting base happy.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:13 am to Napoleon
quote:
I get that. I would think you have Grid power first, then your private generator then back up generators.
I can see both trains of thought. I suppose, in the grand scheme of things, having grid power to the pumps is an option that's likely worth the investment.
I assume the main focus of these pumps is hurricane related flood events, right?
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:13 am to Napoleon
From Nola.com
"Built at the turn of the 20th century, the S&WB power plant produces an unusual brand of 25-hertz cycle electricity that went out of fashion before World War II. Conventional electricity that Entergy supplies is 60-hertz cycle.
While a good portion of the territory the Sewerage and Water Board serves runs on conventional power, drainage pumps west of the Industrial Canal, the potable water system and some ancient sewer lift stations still rely on the 25-cycle electricity."
and
"There has been talk of conversion and advocacy to upgrade the utility's system, but the price tag has been the biggest obstacle. The cost for a full upgrade at the Sewerage and Water Board plant has been pegged at $1 billion."
"Built at the turn of the 20th century, the S&WB power plant produces an unusual brand of 25-hertz cycle electricity that went out of fashion before World War II. Conventional electricity that Entergy supplies is 60-hertz cycle.
While a good portion of the territory the Sewerage and Water Board serves runs on conventional power, drainage pumps west of the Industrial Canal, the potable water system and some ancient sewer lift stations still rely on the 25-cycle electricity."
and
"There has been talk of conversion and advocacy to upgrade the utility's system, but the price tag has been the biggest obstacle. The cost for a full upgrade at the Sewerage and Water Board plant has been pegged at $1 billion."
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:17 am to Breesus
But... But...
The Statues
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:18 am to Packer
I wonder what the power requirement is for these pumps. Maybe a backup generator can be brought in.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:19 am to nolatiger711
Well.. That explains it. 25 Hertz? Crap we use 60Hz in our AC electronics.
So something that should have been upgraded 75 years ago is to blame?
Love it.
So something that should have been upgraded 75 years ago is to blame?
Love it.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:23 am to nolatiger711
quote:
"There has been talk of conversion and advocacy to upgrade the utility's system, but the price tag has been the biggest obstacle. The cost for a full upgrade at the Sewerage and Water Board plant has been pegged at $1 billion."
And how much federal money did NOLA get for infrastructure repairs/upgrades after Katrina?
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:35 am to upgrayedd
As others have said, most of the pumps were installed at the turn of the 20th century and utilize Westinghouse (Tesla) designed AC motors which require 25 cycle power.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:37 am to NOFOX
The biggest pump is 14 ft diameter and made of wood impeller. They cannot figure out how or do not want to pay to make a similar size/volume pulp that is more efficient.
There are also old pumps that used to run on neat Diesel engines - like a 16 cylinder WW2 submarine engine, that have thankfully been upgraded.
There are also old pumps that used to run on neat Diesel engines - like a 16 cylinder WW2 submarine engine, that have thankfully been upgraded.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:42 am to NOFOX
One other said it, and it was the answer I couldn't find before posting.
I just DO NOT believe that it would cost that much for new similar HP ac motors.
Just no way.
What of the three huge new draining plants built by the corps, do they also use 25hz?
Just odd to base the system off of an eltrical source that people haven't used in years.
Next thing someone will tell me is our Nuclear program is still using floppy disks and Tandys. It's just crazy they wouldn't upgrade these pumps.
I just DO NOT believe that it would cost that much for new similar HP ac motors.
Just no way.
What of the three huge new draining plants built by the corps, do they also use 25hz?
Just odd to base the system off of an eltrical source that people haven't used in years.
Next thing someone will tell me is our Nuclear program is still using floppy disks and Tandys. It's just crazy they wouldn't upgrade these pumps.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:45 am to nolatiger711
quote:
"Built at the turn of the 20th century, the S&WB power plant produces an unusual brand of 25-hertz cycle electricity that went out of fashion before World War II. Conventional electricity that Entergy supplies is 60-hertz cycle.
Wow. I'm in the pump business and never have heard of anyone using 25Hz. Europe uses 50Hz. I can't imagine what the adder is to use a non-standard cycle.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:45 am to eng08
quote:
The biggest pump is 14 ft diameter and made of wood impeller. They cannot figure out how or do not want to pay to make a similar size/volume pulp that is more efficient.
They have said for decades that we simply don't have the money to replace the pumps with induction motors, but I have never seen the figures on cost of replacement for individual pumps.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:47 am to eng08
quote:
They cannot figure out how or do not want to pay to make a similar size/volume pulp that is more efficient.
That's bullshite.
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