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Message

re: Homeowner kills intruder, only to be shot and killed by the cops.

Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:15 am to
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91871 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:15 am to
quote:

Speaking of jumping to conclusions...


It's a pretty safe bet, but you know that already.
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:15 am to
Yes the horrible offense of saying jump to instead of come to makes me a moron.

Is it already time for your morning nap? You’re too cranky.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89386 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:16 am to
quote:

It's a pretty safe bet, but you know that already.


It's a safe bet that the cops are definitely in the wrong here? No, I don't know that already.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89386 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:17 am to
quote:

Serious question though - if a homeowner is fired upon by the police, does he have a right to defend himself? If this guy fires back at the officer who just tried to kill him mistakenly, does he have any defense in a court of law?




I would think it would be unwise to return fire towards several police officers, regardless of the legalities.
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:18 am to
quote:

I would think it would be unwise to return fire towards several police officers, regardless of the legalities


Probably. But at that point, it’s survival.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89386 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:22 am to
quote:

Probably. But at that point, it’s survival.


That's my point, you aren't going to survive that.
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:24 am to
No shite. You probably won’t survive period. Human instinct isn’t just to lay down and die though. That’s my point.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91871 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:24 am to
quote:

would think it would be unwise to return fire towards several police officers, regardless of the legalities.



Yeah, it's probably not a good idea, but let's say it's a couple officers firing on you in your home - if you return fire and incapacitate them, and they originally fired upon you mistakenly, I'd imagine you could argue you reasonably feared for your life.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91871 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:25 am to
quote:


It's a safe bet that the cops are definitely in the wrong here? No, I don't know that already.


It's a safe bet that an officer involved shooting will result in no indictments but a civil settlement is likely.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89386 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:26 am to
quote:

Yeah, it's probably not a good idea, but let's say it's a couple officers firing on you in your home - if you return fire and incapacitate them, and they originally fired upon you mistakenly, I'd imagine you could argue you reasonably feared for your life.




I'd agree, but I'd be trying to identify myself rather than returning fire on police.
Posted by Solo Cam
Member since Sep 2015
35184 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:26 am to
quote:

Serious question though - if a homeowner is fired upon by the police, does he have a right to defend himself? If this guy fires back at the officer who just tried to kill him mistakenly, does he have any defense in a court of law?
Idk. But if a cop showed up and threw some rounds into my home I’d try to tell them to stop but I’ll shoot back at anyone if they kept firing on me.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89386 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:27 am to
quote:

It's a safe bet that an officer involved shooting will result in no indictments but a civil settlement is likely.


You think the guy I responded to has ever seen a situation involving cops where they weren't in the wrong? Context matters.
Posted by jeffsdad
Member since Mar 2007
25340 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:29 am to
We don't know the details, but I would imagine the granddad tragically approached the cops with a gun in hand. You just can't do that. I've called the cops before (when there was someone trying to break in my house) and they instructed me several times to be certain I still wasn't holding my gun when they got there. But, yeah, this is messed up.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89386 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:33 am to
quote:

No shite. You probably won’t survive period. Human instinct isn’t just to lay down and die though. That’s my point.



There are other options besides return fire or die.
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:33 am to
quote:

but let's say it's a couple officers firing on you in your home - if you return fire and incapacitate them, and they originally fired upon you mistakenly, I'd imagine you could argue you reasonably feared for your life



Well, to split hairs here, you wouldn't be arguing anything, you'd be dead. That is not to say that in your extremely rare hypothetical situation that I don't think the cops are in the wrong. Just the fact that what typically happens is not cops being reasonable and intent on listening to somebody that just shot another cop.
Posted by The Egg
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2004
83918 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:34 am to
BACK DA BLUE
Posted by Displaced
Member since Dec 2011
33054 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:37 am to
quote:

Police described the scene as chaotic

That's what happens when they kick the door in on an understandably shaken man who had just shot an intruder...
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
21840 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:38 am to
quote:

You think the guy I responded to has ever seen a situation involving cops where they weren't in the wrong?


Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89386 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:39 am to
Roll your eyes all you want, you have a post history here.
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 7/31/18 at 8:41 am to
quote:

There are other options besides return fire or die.


Sure there are from the comfort of your desk at your office.

We don’t even know what happened here, and the hypothetical you and slack are discussing is different than what little facts we know in this case.
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