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re: Has there ever been a country fall like the Mongols?
Posted on 8/29/17 at 5:47 pm to fr33manator
Posted on 8/29/17 at 5:47 pm to fr33manator
quote:
And the places they left behind are invariably shittier.
I disagree. Most places they've been would be worse today than if they hadn't had been there at all.
Could you imagine what the US would be like? Pretty bad.
0
Posted on 8/29/17 at 5:51 pm to athenslife101
quote:
bullshite. It wouldn't be till the late 1800s when horse archers were made mute by guns. Arrows were far more accurate and effective than guns for a long time. The reason why crossbolts and then guns became the main long distance weapon is you didn't need to spend an entire lifetime to learn to shoot a gun.
*moot
Firearms made a difference way earlier and were the reason the Russians finally broke free of the Golden Horde
Posted on 8/29/17 at 5:54 pm to Havoc
quote:
Portugal.
Most people don't realize how powerful they were in the 15th and 16th centuries.
But present day Portugal is world's better than present day Mongolia. Any European country is at least not third world now.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 5:56 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
They never upgraded to Horses 2.0. Or Arrows 2.0. Should have done that 500 years ago.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 5:57 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
The Mughal Empire (Urdu: ????? ??????, translit. Mughliyah Sal?anat)[7] or Mogul Empire,[8] self-designated as Gurkani (Persian: ???????????, Gurkaniyan, meaning "son-in-law"),[9] was an empire in the Indian subcontinent, founded in 1526. It was established and ruled by a Muslim dynasty with Turco-Mongol Chagatai roots from Central Asia,
Posted on 8/29/17 at 5:59 pm to athenslife101
They didn't fall? What would you call it then? They had the largest empire ever and lost the majority of it within 200 years.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 6:03 pm to biglego
That's because they were able to manufacture thousands of guns and ammo relatively easy. If you are on a 1v1 with a Turkic horse archer and a Russian arquebus, ill take the horse archer
Posted on 8/29/17 at 6:11 pm to athenslife101
That's not the same thing as the "Mongolian Empire", which was repelled by the Delhi Sultanate.
We don't say the Roman Empire exists today because they share blood with modern day Italians.
ETA: I see you said "The Mongols", not the "Mongolian Empire" . Kinda misleading but yes, Mongols blood was in there, with other shite.
We don't say the Roman Empire exists today because they share blood with modern day Italians.
ETA: I see you said "The Mongols", not the "Mongolian Empire" . Kinda misleading but yes, Mongols blood was in there, with other shite.
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 6:25 pm
Posted on 8/29/17 at 6:12 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Country
quote:where is this
Mongols
Posted on 8/29/17 at 6:22 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Actually, science has determined that Genghis did so much fricking that, in present day, one in every 200 men in the world are direct descendants of Genghis Khan.
He lived about 800 years ago. At 25 years per generation, that is 32 generations. If he and each of his descendents had 2 kids apiece that would be 2^32 = 4,294,967,296.
I think fricking all over the known world was as important as the number of kids, otherwise they would keep folding back on each other if he never left Mongolia.
The upshot is even if you only have 2 or 3 kids and they have a couple or 3 for a couple of generations to kickoff the chain, in 32 generations you'll have a few million descendants yourself, especially now that everybody is mobile. You genetic contribution to each will be miniscule.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 6:38 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Much more than that, even. How many people today speak a language derived from Vulgar Mongol? How many countries today have political and legal systems which draw heavily from Mongol political and judicial theory? Does a religion first formed and then disseminated under the Mongols form the basis for a third of the world's faith? So on and so on.
that is one way to measure historical significance.
but without the "pax mongolica" the exchange of ideas, culture, valuables, technology, and even epidemic disease along the silk roads wouldn't have happened. the mongols were responsible for a massive cross-cultural exchange between east and west that even accounting for the black death, i think the west benefited from most in the end (especially after the ming dynasty increasingly isolated itself from the rest of the world).
Posted on 8/29/17 at 7:21 pm to lsucoonass
quote:
ulan batoor is a cold place in the fall and winter
When I was there, it was May, and it was still snowing.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 7:26 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
They didn't fall? What would you call it then? They had the largest empire ever and lost the majority of it within 200 years.
They were a Mongol horde that only knew how to raid, rape, and kill. Once Genghis died, they were doomed to fall apart. Same reason the Macedonians and the Huns didn't retain their empire for long.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 8:07 pm to CelticDog
Ghengis Khan isn't walking through that door
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 8/29/17 at 8:16 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
They were a Mongol horde that only knew how to raid, rape, and kill. Once Genghis died, they were doomed to fall apart. Same reason the Macedonians and the Huns didn't retain their empire for long.
The mongol Empire expanded more after Genghis. Had some good leaders after him. It didn't immediately fragment. And once it did fragment, it left several pretty strong smaller empires. Tamerlane notably ruled only a fraction of what was the Mongol Empire and he was still probably the most powerful ruler on earth at the time.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 8:20 pm to athenslife101
quote:
That's because they were able to manufacture thousands of guns and ammo relatively easy. If you are on a 1v1 with a Turkic horse archer and a Russian arquebus, ill take the horse archer
I agree there, but battles were not fought 1v1. The steppe horse archer was probably the ultimate pre-gunpowder warrior and the Mongols were the pinnacle of that steppe tradition. After firearms came into common use, there were no more invasions from the steppes.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 9:01 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Has there ever been a country fall like the Mongols?
The blitzkrieg rolling across Poland?
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