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Message
1
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:08 am to 4x4tiger
quote:
The Catholic religion added works to the Christian faith because they didn't believe Jesus dying on the cross was good enough
Yep. It’s in man’s nature to want to be God.
There are limitless earthly manifestations of this fallen drive.
And no denomination or religion is immune to it.
Even for denominations that don’t bake it directly into their official dogma, it is a constant force and hopefully battle.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:09 am to McLemore
quote:
Did Mary have children after Jesus? Let me go ask muh website.
Excellent question. Check Catholic Answers for more info on this question.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:10 am to 4x4tiger
quote:
The Catholic religion added works to the Christian faith because they didn't believe Jesus dying on the cross was good enough
That's quite a Distortion of Truth and quite the Accusation.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:11 am to Champagne
quote:
That's quite a Distortion of Truth and quite the Accusation.
Take that up with the Council of Trent and the subsequent Councils that affirmed its Canons.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:17 am to StrongOffer
quote:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.” John 6:53–55
It is the spirit that gives life;
the flesh can achieve nothing.
The words that I have spoken to you
are spirit and life. John 6:63
Jesus' flesh is referring to His earthly life and His teachings which is His 'flesh' that feeds our spirit as Christians. Jesus' blood is His sacrifice and spilling of his blood that gives us eternal life.
Just as Jesus did many times in His teachings here He is speaking figuratively. Unless you believe that He is a literal vine and Christians are literal branches that will grow literal fruit.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:17 am to McLemore
quote:Then why did a bunch of his followers leave after he said it? And why did he not correct the confusion? He very clearly was being literal.
Jesus is literal when you want him to be literal. And figurative when you want him to be figurative.
quote:You're clearly trying to change the subject after this, but Jesus' first miracle was answering a request from His mother. He even acknowledges "my time has not come yet", but does it anyway. Mary's requests are seen to be heard.
And back on praying to the dead:
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:17 am to McLemore
quote:
Take that up with the Council of Trent and the subsequent Councils that affirmed its Canons.
What are we arguing about here? I'm just saying that any blanket statement condemning any particular point of view is not worthy of belief if it is not supported by citations of evidence proving the validity of the blanket statement.
The previous poster declared that the Catholic Church believes that Jesus Christ Crucified saved nothing and nobody. That's a distortion of the truth.
Anybody who wants to delve further into this argument should check out Catholic Answers to get my side of the argument. We aren't going to settle the argument one way or another here on the OT.
I'm just sharing information and deflecting against distortions of truth and false accusations. Satan distorts the truth and levies false accusations. I don't believe in using that method here on Tigerdroppings.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:23 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:How can possibly say he's speaking figuratively when many disciples leave Him because of what He's saying? The sola scriptura crowd sure do like ignoring scripture.
Jesus' flesh is referring to His earthly life and His teachings which is His 'flesh' that feeds our spirit as Christians. Jesus' blood is His sacrifice and spilling of his blood that gives us eternal life.
Just as Jesus did many times in His teachings here He is speaking figuratively. Unless you believe that He is a literal vine and Christians are literal branches that will grow literal fruit.
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:41 am to Upperdecker
oh look the prots are at it again.
Enjoy your harvest festival trunk or treat
Enjoy your harvest festival trunk or treat
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:44 am to Bayou
quote:35,000 denominations and pride flags hanging in protestant churches - certainly something you should be proud of.
Thankful for the efforts of Martin Luther.
No coincidence that reformation day and All Hallows Eve are the same day, something else that protestants like to gloss over and ignore.
This post was edited on 10/31/25 at 11:20 am
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:46 am to StrongOffer
quote:The followers/disciples were grumbling amongst themselves early when after the 5 loaves and 2 fish they asked that Jesus continue to feed them to prove He is who God sent to be the Savior. Jesus then answers them saying that He was not sent to give them food that spoils but to be the bread that gives eternal life. He also calls himself the Son of God. At which point they begin to grumble louder saying He is just the son of Joseph.
How can possibly say he's speaking figuratively when many disciples leave Him because of what He's saying?
The Jews are still waiting on their savior who will save them because they want a literal triumph, not a spiritual one. The grumblings and the followers leaving is because that is not the savior they understood from the prophets, and the proclamation that He was the Son of God.
He had just fed thousands with more left over than was originally collected, then left and walked across a lake. Many of those following Him and calling themselves His disciples thought he was accumulating followers for a vast army that would destroy those bringing death and destruction to them, not realizing the death and destruction Jesus was sent to destroy was the spiritual kind. They expected more miracles and an overthrow of the government, not speaking of death and spiritual feeding, or 'heresy' in saying He was the Son of God.
They did not leave because of the handful of verses that you cite, but rather of progression of reality that He was not who they thought He was. Studying and referencing the entirety of what is going on here reveals the crowd and non-believers were ready to depart several verses prior to what you try and attribute as the reason as to their abandonment.
The hard teaching is that He is the Son of God and the way to eternal life, not that his followers are called to be cannibals.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:47 am to 4x4tiger
quote:
The Catholic religion added works to the Christian faith because they didn't believe Jesus dying on the cross was good enough
Time to play a fun game called FINISH THE QUOTE!
"Let your light so shine before men so they may see your good _____"
The point being that you can't claim to be Christian on Sunday and act like a total douchebag to others on Monday through Saturday. You actually have to believe and practice, not leave the church and road rage on your way to the buffet after. Faith without works is DEAD - be humble, help others. Nobody is saying that being a good person is enough because society likes to change the definition of what a good person is, kinda like whats going on with protestants right now that are admonishing those that don't affirm pronouns/trans nonsense and don't comply with abortion on demand. If you need any proof of this happening - just go look at r/christianity. Its a cesspool of "progressive Christianity".
This post was edited on 10/31/25 at 10:57 am
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:53 am to AwesomeSauce
Did you read the verses I posted above? I honestly have 0 clue how someone could read that and then post what you did. It couldn't be more clear why they are leaving. I even highlighted it for you. "On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” What teaching do you think they are talking about? It's the teaching that DIRECTLY proceeds the disciples' question.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 10:53 am to Horsemeat
"... works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven"
I don't think I know of any protestant denomination that says a believer is to not bear fruits or do good works. Faith and works go hand and hand. Faith is what saves, but the good works is the fruits of that Faith in action.
Faith is the action that provides salvation through His grace and sacrifice. Good works is from following and cultivating that faith in our daily walk.
I don't think I know of any protestant denomination that says a believer is to not bear fruits or do good works. Faith and works go hand and hand. Faith is what saves, but the good works is the fruits of that Faith in action.
Faith is the action that provides salvation through His grace and sacrifice. Good works is from following and cultivating that faith in our daily walk.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 11:00 am to Bayou
quote:
argued that salvation comes through faith alone, not works
I actually believe the exact opposite.
And so it is written…Spankism is born!
Posted on 10/31/25 at 11:03 am to StrongOffer
quote:I've read and studied the Gospels at length. I am well aware of that verse and that you chose to pull out a handful of the 30 plus in John's account of this interaction.
Did you read the verses I posted above?
quote:Read the entire interaction, explore the savior the Jews are still looking for today, and apply the two.
I honestly have 0 clue how someone could read that and then post what you did.
quote:The entirety of the discussion when they are already up in arms after He says He won't just be conducting miracles to show them He is the Savior. Him calling Himself the Son of God. His message here that they reject and do not believe is that He is the Son of God and his teachings and sacrifice will deliver salvation.
What teaching do you think they are talking about?
quote:The whole of the teaching that preceded, not selective verses to prove my point.
It's the teaching that DIRECTLY proceeds the disciples' question.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 11:06 am to cdur86
quote:
yeah screw those Catholics volunteering their time and effort to make their community better! I will never understand the Protestant view of dismissing "works" as a duty as a Christian.
That’s because they don’t dismiss works as a duty. They dismiss it as the path to salvation.
Posted on 10/31/25 at 11:07 am to Bayou
The 95 theses supported the Pope, indulgences, and the Catholic Church in general. He later started a schism.....
Posted on 10/31/25 at 11:11 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:It's not selective. 1) Jesus gives a teaching 2) the disciples say "how can He give us his flesh to eat, does He think we're cannibals?" 3) Jesus doubles down 4) disciples say "wow this is really hard" 5) "aware that His disciples were grumbling" Jesus doubles down AGAIN 6) disciples leave
The whole of the teaching that preceded, not selective verses to prove my point.
Your answer is to look at earlier in the chapter for why they are leaving. I don't need to. It couldn't possibly be more clear.
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