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Started By
Message
re: Generac generator crapping out
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:39 am to bnmathm
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:39 am to bnmathm
It isn't reving up, its loading up. The governor maintains engine speed by adjusting the throttle. As more load comes on, the throttle has to open to make more power to keep the same engine speed (and thus same frequency out of generator). Mechanical governors on gas motors are caveman tech so when load comes on, it will bog a bit, overshoot the response as it tries to catch up, and then slow back down a bit and stabilize when the load changes. It will actually run a bit slower under high load than it will unloaded. At higher loads, the engine makes more noise.
Google droop vs isochronus generator operation if you want to nerd out on a bit. Its important to understand that stuff for troubleshooting. Your basic dumb generator has a speed droop governor
Eta: ignore all the paralleling stuff you'll find, you aren't doing that.
Google droop vs isochronus generator operation if you want to nerd out on a bit. Its important to understand that stuff for troubleshooting. Your basic dumb generator has a speed droop governor
Eta: ignore all the paralleling stuff you'll find, you aren't doing that.
This post was edited on 9/2/21 at 10:43 am
1
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:40 am to lsu777
quote:
not the housing....inside on the generator itself.
Well now I have to look tonight out of curiosity! Why you giving me homework?
This post was edited on 9/2/21 at 10:41 am
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:45 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
It isn't reving up, its loading up. The governor maintains engine speed by adjusting the throttle. As more load comes on, the throttle has to open to make more power to keep the same engine speed (and thus same frequency out of generator). Mechanical governors on gas motors are caveman tech so when load comes on, it will bog a bit, overshoot the response as it tries to catch up, and then slow back down a bit and stabilize when the load changes. It will actually run a bit slower under high load than it will unloaded. At higher loads, the engine makes more noise.
Ok I assumed the motor was ramping up rpms because the damn engine sure as hell sounds like it is ramping.
Good to learn something new
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:45 am to lsu777
Reading all this tells me that those air-cooled Generacs everyone seems to have bought into down here are not the way to go. They aren't made for weeks of continuous use. Hell the commercials you see for them show a family freaking out when a bad thunderstorm knocks out their power for an hour or two. For that they are fine. A month of continuous use in this heat? LOL. You gonna have issues.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:46 am to SG_Geaux
quote:
Well now I have to look tonight out of curiosity! Why you giving me homework?
Haha, I. Actually hoping your isn't doing it. BuT I know mine was and 3 of the houses around me were.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:48 am to lsu777
Inverters are actually varying engine speed to match the power required. Since they're using rectifiers to make 60hz no matter the generator frequency, the engine speed can be varied to match the load. Its the reason they're so much quieter and more fuel efficient than a normal fixed speed unit.
Eta: its a big reason at least. They generally have really good enclosures also where a regular portable is open
Your average every day fixed speed portable or standby generator isn't doing any of that. Its running somewhere around 3600rpm continuously to make 60ish hertz and using a simple mechanical governor to maintain speed.
Eta: its a big reason at least. They generally have really good enclosures also where a regular portable is open
Your average every day fixed speed portable or standby generator isn't doing any of that. Its running somewhere around 3600rpm continuously to make 60ish hertz and using a simple mechanical governor to maintain speed.
This post was edited on 9/2/21 at 10:50 am
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:57 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Inverters are actually varying engine speed to match the power required. Since they're using rectifiers to make 60hz no matter the generator frequency, the engine speed can be varied to match the load. Its the reason they're so much quieter and more fuel efficient than a normal fixed speed unit.
Eta: its a big reason at least. They generally have really good enclosures also where a regular portable is open
Your average every day fixed speed portable or standby generator isn't doing any of that. Its running somewhere around 3600rpm continuously to make 60ish hertz and using a simple mechanical governor to maintain speed.
well i knew that was what they were supposed to do with the stepping motor being the governor essentially but i assumed everytime i heard it bottom out and then ramp it was actually the motor going well below and well above the 3600 rpms.....cause like another poster mentioned...thats exactly what it sounds like.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 10:59 am to Bronsonburner
quote:
Reading all this tells me that those air-cooled Generacs everyone seems to have bought into down here are not the way to go. They aren't made for weeks of continuous use. Hell the commercials you see for them show a family freaking out when a bad thunderstorm knocks out their power for an hour or two. For that they are fine. A month of continuous use in this heat? LOL. You gonna have issues.
they are made more for what the commercials show, but if you have some mechanical knowledge, have spare parts and are willing to baby the thing and not overload it, they can be a life saver. I know ours was after laura but we had to baby it like crazy. the newer 22kws seem to be a little better though. But i can honestly say it was a god send for me and my family. just took almost constant monitoring adn maintenance.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:05 am to lsu777
quote:
also tried explaining it has to be shut down every afternoon and people want to argue about the manual saying it doesnt...... well good luck with that
So while I fully agree with the maintenance, and am somewhat mechanically inclined, I am of the nature that when something is running and you need it, don't turn it off.
Reason being is this case in point- My boss turned off his generac protector OS genny to check the oil etc. Now the thing wont turn back on, on auto or manual. Giving in error message of 2671 canbus, which is usually a fried control panel.
Tried resetting the control panel- putting it in manual etc. No dice
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:07 am to BucksnDucks
quote:
So while I fully agree with the maintenance, and am somewhat mechanically inclined, I am of the nature that when something is running and you need it, don't turn it off.
Reason being is this case in point- My boss turned off his generac protector OS genny to check the oil etc. Now the thing wont turn back on, on auto or manual. Giving in error message of 2671 canbus, which is usually a fried control panel.
Tried resetting the control panel- putting it in manual etc. No dice
ok so control panel is not that hard to get or change right? but if he would have ran it until no oil left....well he would be changing somehting a lot bigger than the control panel.
did he try pulling the fuse out to reset the panel and clear the code?
was he running it with the enclosure closed?
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:07 am to lsu777
I have the 22kw and it's been running since last Saturday, with no issues. It's not a "set it and forget it" type deal. It's an engine running around the clock. You're absolutely right in saying that you have to baby it. You have to check the oil level, keep the oil changed, give it a break every now and then and let it cool off, etc.
You're supposed to check the oil every 24 hours that it's running and change the oil every 200 hours (~8 days). They sell tune up kits on Amazon that come with the oil, oil filter, two spark plugs, and an air filter for $60. I'm gonna be servicing mine tomorrow as it will have been day #7.
If I didn't have this generator, I'd be homicidal by now with Entergy's restoration timeline. It's bad enough I'm gonna need to pull out a second mortgage to pay next month's gas bill, but at least my life hasn't changed at home since the storm.
You're supposed to check the oil every 24 hours that it's running and change the oil every 200 hours (~8 days). They sell tune up kits on Amazon that come with the oil, oil filter, two spark plugs, and an air filter for $60. I'm gonna be servicing mine tomorrow as it will have been day #7.
If I didn't have this generator, I'd be homicidal by now with Entergy's restoration timeline. It's bad enough I'm gonna need to pull out a second mortgage to pay next month's gas bill, but at least my life hasn't changed at home since the storm.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:11 am to RealityTiger
quote:
You're supposed to check the oil every 24 hours that it's running and change the oil every 200 hours (~8 days). They sell tune up kits on Amazon that come with the oil, oil filter, two spark plugs, and an air filter for $60. I'm gonna be servicing mine tomorrow as it will have been day #7.
just so you know the 200 hours is supposed to be on non continuous run time. its 100 hours when its continuous and both are when its running in ambient temp of 77 degrees and we are at 90+. just be mindful of that.
but everything you said it 100% right on for sure.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:14 am to lsu777
quote:
but i assumed everytime i heard it bottom out and then ramp it was actually the motor going well below and well above the 3600 rpms...
Well it is, but only temporarily. Once the load comes on, the engine bogs down and slows down because it needs more throttle to make more power. The governor opens the throttle in response to the engine slowing down. It opens it too much (usually just goes wide open) to get the speed back up. It overshoots because its at wide open throttle and the load is simultaneously decreasing as whatever came online spins up and needs less amps. Governor pulls back some since the engines running too fast and stabilizes out as the load stabilizes. Its a step load response characteristic if you want to read up on that.
You can watch the throttle arm do it. Itll go wide open, completely closed, nearly wide open, and then settle out. Electronic governors respond much faster and more accurately and the throttle moves will be much less pronounced. The end result is the same though, engine running around 3600rpm just at higher load and more noise.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:17 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Well it is, but only temporarily. Once the load comes on, the engine bogs down and slows down because it needs more throttle to make more power. The governor opens the throttle in response to the engine slowing down. It opens it too much (usually just goes wide open) to get the speed back up. It overshoots because its at wide open throttle and the load is simultaneously decreasing as whatever came online spins up and needs less amps. Governor pulls back some since the engines running too fast and stabilizes out as the load stabilizes. Its a step load response characteristic if you want to read up on that.
You can watch the throttle arm do it. Itll go wide open, completely closed, nearly wide open, and then settle out. Electronic governors respond much faster and more accurately and the throttle moves will be much less pronounced. The end result is the same though, engine running around 3600rpm just at higher load and more noise.
ok well then it is doing exactly what i thought it was. This is exactly how i thought it worked and it sounded like it was working.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:39 am to lsu777
Trying to get a control panel now.
But wouldn't the generator have automatically shut off for low oil with the sensor?
And no he does/did take covers off
quote:
but if he would have ran it until no oil left....well he would be changing somehting a lot bigger than the control panel.
But wouldn't the generator have automatically shut off for low oil with the sensor?
And no he does/did take covers off
This post was edited on 9/2/21 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:52 am to BucksnDucks
quote:
But wouldn't the generator have automatically shut off for low oil with the sensor?
seen both. but last year had 2 of my friends parents have the low oil sensor fail and lock up the motor.
i had an extra control panel for the 20kw older model but had to give to friends parents during the ice storm. sorry man. should be able to get it though.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 11:56 am to BucksnDucks
I bought a house with one 2 years ago. Maybe it is an older unit so somewhat better built, but it came with a maintenance contract when we bought the house so we kept it. It has probably run 8-9 days through the freeze, Ida, and a prior event. Never had any problem and the maintenance people are quite easy to deal with.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 12:32 pm to lsu777
So I just left the generac service location
1. USE 10W-30 FULL SYNTHETIC OIL
2. Keep top closed
3. Change oil every 100-200 hours
4. Change air filter every 400 hours
The 5W-30 is designed for cooler weather and breaks down sooner
1. USE 10W-30 FULL SYNTHETIC OIL
2. Keep top closed
3. Change oil every 100-200 hours
4. Change air filter every 400 hours
The 5W-30 is designed for cooler weather and breaks down sooner
Posted on 9/2/21 at 12:34 pm to OLDBEACHCOMBER
quote:
Hearing low natural gas supply is a possibility.
Mine ran perfect all 3 days that it was needed. I did hear low natural gas in some areas is/was an issue.
Posted on 9/2/21 at 12:37 pm to OLDBEACHCOMBER
After reading this thread I rested my Generac whole home for 3 hours….now the bitch won’t start back up. FMl.
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