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Started By
Message
re: For all the supporters of losing rights due to a cough
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:13 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:13 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Compliance is never going to change, period.
Sure it is. We've spent an entire thread talking about people desperate because their livelihoods are at stake. If the government says you can open back up with X, Y, and Z guidelines, you don't think they'll comply?
quote:
Either these businesses can operate safely or not. Why not order these businesses and clientele to protect themselves and leave them open if it can be done safely?
It's not a one or a zero when it comes to infectious spread. The number of infected and rate of transmission matter. There is a lot of gray area in this.
quote:
Fine them for non compliance, ban people from facilities who aren't protected.
This is what you said
That will probably happen.
quote:
quote:
Nonsense.
You can operate all of these at some capacity with social distancing methods.
quote:
Shutting them down was an overreaction, period if they can be operated safely.
If JBE did not shut down New Orleans, the entire Region One medical system when have been overwhelmed to the point of collapse.
2
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:15 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:Then why are we treating it as a black or white, one or zero game?
It's not a one or a zero when it comes to infectious spread. The number of infected and rate of transmission matter. There is a lot of gray area in this.
quote:Ok.
If JBE did not shut down New Orleans, the entire Region One medical system when have been overwhelmed to the point of collapse.
Does that mean that complete shutdown of the entire state of LA was needed?
That goes back to the “why are we treating a non-one or zero game like a one or zero game”?
This post was edited on 4/5/20 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:16 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
If the government says you can open back up with X, Y, and Z guidelines, you don't think they'll comply?
This should have been done outside of the hotspots from the beginning. Or are you saying the gubment had to take something away, give it back again to make it work?
There's really no reason for blanket draconian authority outside of disaster zones.
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:17 pm to RogerTheShrubber
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/5/20 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:19 pm to cahoots
quote:
It may be that we “reopen” knowing full well that more will get infected. But at least we will have a better understanding of the resources needed to tackle it.
What's being discussed is whether the initial reactions were too stringent out of fear for the absolute worst case scenario.
You cannot exclude social and economic factors in that discussion.
What this is about is measured responses vs panic.
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:21 pm to cahoots
quote:I completely understand that concept.
The anti-shutdown types severely underestimate the value of buying time. It’s not the same result as if you just let it ride from the get go
Now start telling me when we will start opening up again.
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:21 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Then why are we treating it as a black or white, one or zero game?
We aren't. Each state has different regulations in place
quote:
Does that mean that complete shutdown of the entire state of LA was needed?
I don't fault him for it. The rate of growth was skyrocketing (even with low numbers) and we didn't know how fast it would move from New Orleans. I would imagine that the lockdown has probably served EBR best as it would have been the next big metro area hit.
quote:
That goes back to the “why are we treating a non-one or zero game like a one or zero game”?
To get the R(0) quickly under control so we don't have lockdowns every other month.
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:23 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:how does anyone know this? The media is atrocious at accurately reporting anything related to this thing
The rate of growth was skyrocketing
All we know is that there were positive reported results. And there were more results because there were more tests
And there was an increase the last days because the units tests took 10 or so days to get results back.
We don’t know how many already had it or whether or not it is spreading because we have no info and didn’t start testing until 3 weeks ago.
For all we know we’re already on the backside of the curve and have been for weeks.
Why is no one reporting the numbers based on test date instead of results date?
This post was edited on 4/5/20 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:25 pm to Chef Free Gold Bloom
quote:
how does anyone know this?
All we know is that there were positive reported results.
No, we can look at hospitalization rates as well. It was exponentially growing and we were tracking an R(0) over 3.
quote:
For all we know we’re already on the backside of the curve and have been for weeks.
No chance
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:25 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Each state has different regulations in place
In our state it's a massive overreactio in the xchange for federal funds. That's why we have draconian measures.
Even in La, people in Many, Louisiana shouldn't be forced to shut down because New Orleans spread the disease during Mardi Gras.
All I'm arguing is measured responses which require some work vs blanket shutdowns.
The initial reaction was based on fear. We aren't going to lose A million people and never were..
This post was edited on 4/5/20 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:26 pm to RogerTheShrubber
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/5/20 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:27 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
we can look at hospitalization rates as well. It was exponentially growing and we were tracking an R(0) over 3.
Link?
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:27 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Can these businesses safely operate or not? If no, this s situation is going to continue a long time.
Didn't you just say they could operate under guidelines with PPE?
In what world do you live in where safety is so black and white?
Can these places operate safely with proper precautions and protection? Yes probably. That doesn't mean there would be 0 risk, though. It also doesn't mean that they never should have been shut down.
You seem to be looking at this with hindsight but at the earliest stages of this nobody knew what exactly to do. Data from china/WHO was incomplete or downright fraudulent, leading scientists were still not entirely sure of all of the methods of infection, just how virule it was, even just how deadly it was, and testing in the US was non-existent. Hell we are still questioning all of those things.
In the absence of data, leaders chose to shut everything down as a precaution. As data comes in, they should re-evaluate and determine if they feel like they have enough data to say that the biggest spiking has been avoided and our medical system is capable of handling a gradual re-opening.
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:28 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:Yes we are.
We aren't.
quote:I absolutely do and I place all long term effects at his and other politicians, including Trump’s, feet.
I don't fault him for it.
quote:That isn’t how this works. Damn, this is frustrating having to repeat this over and over again.
To get the R(0) quickly under control so we don't have lockdowns every other month.
This plan of decreasing the R(0), flattening the curve, etc., is not something that gets “quickly under control”.
It is not a quick process.
The amount of time we would need in order to reach this mythical point is devastating to our country.
We really need to reach this middle ground and start allowing businesses to function, because this “one and zero” game is a terrible plan.
This post was edited on 4/5/20 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:28 pm to cahoots
quote:
think it’s a myth that those aren’t being considered.
Oh yeah.. I forgot the great idea for small business loans that people will not be able to afford.
We absolutely overreacted based on dire medical advice that most likely was an overreach.
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:30 pm to Scruffy
quote:
The amount of time we would need in order to reach this mythical point is devastating to our country.
We really need to reach this middle ground and start allowing businesses to function, because this “one and zero” game is a terrible plan.
Amen
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:31 pm to RogerTheShrubber
(no message)
This post was edited on 9/18/22 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:31 pm to cahoots
quote:
Well if it was a clear overreaction, then states are free to open back up. No one is forcing this at the federal level
Do you understand how federal aid and politics works?
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:32 pm to cahoots
quote:
then states are free to open back up.
Federal money baw.
Our governor is acting like this is WWIII.
Posted on 4/5/20 at 12:34 pm to Chef Free Gold Bloom
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/5/20 at 1:38 pm
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