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Message
re: Field sobriety tests aren't designed for you to pass.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 5:01 pm to Joshjrn
Posted on 2/26/24 at 5:01 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Depending on the study, a perfectly conducted (basically never happens) SFST occurring in ideal lab settings (never happens) in which all clues are observed have a false positive rate between 24%-28%.
Plainly not true. Look at validation studies done in the late 1990's in Colorado, Florida, and California. Field studies show officers making correct arrest decisions in 86% - 91% of cases.
1
Posted on 2/26/24 at 5:35 pm to NatalbanyTigerFan
"The Man With Two Brains" (1983) starring Steve Martin and Kathleen Turner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MXU3J6Qbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MXU3J6Qbs
Posted on 2/26/24 at 5:40 pm to NatalbanyTigerFan
Here's my observations based on my watching of dozens of DUI arrests on the Tube.
1) You do not have to consent to the FST. The FST will help you in no way whatsoever, even if you're sober. I've seen people absolutely ACE the tests and still get arrested. It's pointless to participate.
2) Once you refuse, the Cop will make a judgement call on whether to arrest you based on his observations (alcohol smell, open container, slurred speech, etc.). If he suspects you of DUI already, then he's probably gonna arrest you.
3) Once at the station, the Cops will ask you to take a breathalyzer (the kind that sit on the desk and are admissible in court). If you refuse, you will lose your license for a set period of time (depending on your state's specific law). There is no way around this - you either blow or lose your license. Most states make this very clear in the law and there's really no loophole.
4) You will have to decide which penalty will hurt you most. A DUI or automatically losing your license for 6 months (or whatever it is). If you already have DUI's on your record, it is probably best to refuse and just take the license suspension. Keep in mind, that they can still charge you with DUI even if you don't do the FST and refuse to blow. But their case will be much weaker.
The best DUI videos are those of off-duty Cops getting busted for it. One of the Cops I saw was himself a DUI officer and had made hundreds of DUI arrests. When he got pulled over, he refused everything. In fact, he was pretty slick and was really good at stalling the officers so they couldn't get him back to the station quickly. I am not sure how good of a strategy this is as alcohol leaves your system VERY slowly. Stalling probably won't do much good unless you can do it for several hours (unlikely).
I do not drink and drive, so I've never had a DUI. All you baws that do are trashy.
1) You do not have to consent to the FST. The FST will help you in no way whatsoever, even if you're sober. I've seen people absolutely ACE the tests and still get arrested. It's pointless to participate.
2) Once you refuse, the Cop will make a judgement call on whether to arrest you based on his observations (alcohol smell, open container, slurred speech, etc.). If he suspects you of DUI already, then he's probably gonna arrest you.
3) Once at the station, the Cops will ask you to take a breathalyzer (the kind that sit on the desk and are admissible in court). If you refuse, you will lose your license for a set period of time (depending on your state's specific law). There is no way around this - you either blow or lose your license. Most states make this very clear in the law and there's really no loophole.
4) You will have to decide which penalty will hurt you most. A DUI or automatically losing your license for 6 months (or whatever it is). If you already have DUI's on your record, it is probably best to refuse and just take the license suspension. Keep in mind, that they can still charge you with DUI even if you don't do the FST and refuse to blow. But their case will be much weaker.
The best DUI videos are those of off-duty Cops getting busted for it. One of the Cops I saw was himself a DUI officer and had made hundreds of DUI arrests. When he got pulled over, he refused everything. In fact, he was pretty slick and was really good at stalling the officers so they couldn't get him back to the station quickly. I am not sure how good of a strategy this is as alcohol leaves your system VERY slowly. Stalling probably won't do much good unless you can do it for several hours (unlikely).
I do not drink and drive, so I've never had a DUI. All you baws that do are trashy.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 5:47 pm to lsu223
quote:
Plainly not true. Look at validation studies done in the late 1990's in Colorado, Florida, and California. Field studies show officers making correct arrest decisions in 86% - 91% of cases.
Good afternoon, officer.
If I recall correctly, the field studies you’re referring to allowed officers to use every tool in their arsenal short of a chemical test, and we’re still talking about high false positive rates. When it comes to SFST alone, if I further recall correctly, it was a 28% false positive rate in the… 2005? NHTSA officer training manual, before it was removed entirely from subsequent manuals.
But I promise a quick Google search will return all the results you need on the subject. SFST is just this side of fricking voodoo. Sorry
Posted on 2/26/24 at 6:29 pm to NatalbanyTigerFan
That is an absurd FST. Who could pass that.
And wow, that dude was a real dick. Looked like a Faggie yell leader.
And wow, that dude was a real dick. Looked like a Faggie yell leader.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 7:15 pm to NatalbanyTigerFan
I hope there are cops that post in the OT because I want to tell all of them to Frick the Frick off.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 7:28 pm to AUstar
quote:
3) Once at the station, the Cops will ask you to take a breathalyzer (the kind that sit on the desk and are admissible in court). If you refuse, you will lose your license for a set period of time (depending on your state's specific law). There is no way around this - you either blow or lose your license. Most states make this very clear in the law and there's really no loophole.
If you burp, they are supposed to wait a 1/2 hour before testing at least in NC.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 7:34 pm to AUstar
Some states will get a warrant for a forced blood test at a hospital.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 7:58 pm to Joshjrn
Sounds like you know what you're doing - good info
Posted on 2/26/24 at 8:03 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
If I recall correctly, the field studies you’re referring to allowed officers to use every tool in their arsenal short of a chemical test, and we’re still talking about high false positive rates. When it comes to SFST alone, if I further recall correctly, it was a 28% false positive rate in the… 2005? NHTSA officer training manual, before it was removed entirely from subsequent manuals.
But I promise a quick Google search will return all the results you need on the subject. SFST is just this side of fricking voodoo. Sorry
Sonofabitch! I was right!
Posted on 2/26/24 at 8:16 pm to NatalbanyTigerFan
I'm not aware of any agency in LA that doesn't use the Standardized Field Sobriety Test ("SFST"). There are only three elements to the test: following movement with just your eyes, walk and turn, and one leg stand. IMO the eye test is really all you need. If the eyes twitch (i.e., horizontal gaze nystagmus), chances are you are drunk. Drugs can have a similar effect. Fail the SFST and you're likely good to go for the next step, the Intoxilizer. Of course, medical problems can cause one to fail the SFST, so it's not 100%.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 8:34 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
When it comes to SFST alone, if I further recall correctly, it was a 28% false positive rate in the…
So even if we indulge in cherry picking stats, you're suggesting that a test with 72% reliability is voodoo?
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:04 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Hmmmmmmmmmm, what other test in our recent past had an even higher failure rate and was considered ironclad?
The CPA
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:07 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
No one should ever submit to a SFST. No one. Ever. I mean that literally.
If you fail, it seems they would have to test your blood alcohol level. Is that not the case?
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:08 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
No one should ever submit to a SFST. No one. Ever. I mean that literally.
What happens if you refuse?
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:09 pm to tigersbh
I got the solution for this. Don’t drink and drive.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:10 pm to lsu223
quote:
So even if we indulge in cherry picking stats, you're suggesting that a test with 72% reliability is voodoo?
72% reliable when administered perfectly in ideal laboratory conditions. It’s staggeringly rare that I watch BWC showing it administered perfectly. HGN is particularly poorly done, with the stimulus moving too quickly, being set too high, etc. And again, I’ve never seen SFST administered in laboratory conditions. Headlights are flashing, surfaces are uneven, etc, etc. This drives reliability down even further. And that’s not even considering confirmation bias or simple lack of care in the officer.
How close do we need to get to 50% in the real world before we write it off as the voodoo that it is?
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:13 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
If you burp, they are supposed to wait a 1/2 hour before testing at least in NC.
15m observation period in Louisiana without consuming anything or belching. I actually assumed that number was universal, but I don’t know if that’s true.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:14 pm to tigersbh
quote:
If you fail, it seems they would have to test your blood alcohol level. Is that not the case?
I’m not quite sure what you’re asking. Rephrase?
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:16 pm to dukke v
quote:
I got the solution for this. Don’t drink and drive.
Who says I do? I just asked a question.
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