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Message

FAA issues immediate order to all helicopter operators.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 3/23/18 at 2:05 pm
Remember the helicopter crash in East River? All passengers perished.
The findings by FAA/NTSA investigation:
So what is the order?
Basically, it means any helicopter out there is grounded if it flies without the doors in place until new FAA approved quick disconnect restraints are approved. That sucks that those passengers couldn't get their restraints off and died (assuming) still strapped to their seats.
The findings by FAA/NTSA investigation:
quote:
Based on an initial investigation and the reliable and credible evidence presently available, the Acting Administrator finds that:
On March 11, 2018, civil aircraft N350LH, an Airbus Helicopters AS350B2 helicopter, was operated “doors off” on a flight in the vicinity of New York City, New York. All passengers on the flight wore harness systems that allowed the passengers to move securely within the helicopter and sit in the door sill while airborne. The harness systems were provided by the operator to ensure passengers did not fall out of the helicopter while moving around. Along with the supplemental passenger restraint systems, the operator provided knives to be used to cut through the restraints if necessary, and informed the passengers of the purpose of the knives. During the flight, the aircraft experienced a loss of power, resulting in the aircraft impacting the East River. The aircraft subsequently rolled over, and all of the passengers perished.
The supplemental passenger restraint systems worn by the passengers, while intended as a safety measure when the aircraft was in flight, may have prevented the passengers’ quick egress from the aircraft. While the fatalities on March 11, 2018, involved an aircraft impacting the water, passengers could face a similar hazard in other emergency situations, such as an aircraft fire on the ground.
quote:
Under 49 U.S.C. 46105(c) the Acting Administrator has determined that an emergency exists related to safety in air commerce. This determination is based on the threat to passenger safety presented by the use of supplemental passenger restraint systems not approved by the FAA, which may prevent a passenger from exiting the aircraft quickly in an emergency. Accordingly, this Order is effective immediately.
So what is the order?
quote:Here's the order: Rotor News
The Emergency Order prohibits the use of supplemental passenger restraint systems that cannot be released quickly in an emergency in doors off flight operations. It also prohibits passenger-carrying doors off flight operations unless the passengers are at all times properly secured using FAA-approved restraints.
Basically, it means any helicopter out there is grounded if it flies without the doors in place until new FAA approved quick disconnect restraints are approved. That sucks that those passengers couldn't get their restraints off and died (assuming) still strapped to their seats.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 2:06 pm to HubbaBubba
Paging BlackHelicopterPilot
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 3/23/18 at 2:07 pm to HubbaBubba
Don't apply to ALL helicopters
Posted on 3/23/18 at 2:08 pm to HubbaBubba
so some lobbyist for 3m or a harness manufacturer greased the palms to get the legislation passed in order to get a bigger share of the market it what I am getting from this. Hey you might die but since this has harness has an FAA certification, its cool because it cost more. Why wouldn't the same system put in place for race car drivers be the benchmark for any quick release retention system
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 3/23/18 at 2:33 pm to Perrydawg
Probably because some dumbass would use the quick release harness made famous by Owen Hart instead.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 2:49 pm to HubbaBubba
I'm surprised they can go doors open in the first place. Are they not strapped in the same with the doors closed?
I have a hard time believing that if they went over how to use the harness cutters, that every single one of them failed to use them. They were either knocked out, didn't go over how to use them, or otherwise were unable.
I have a hard time believing that if they went over how to use the harness cutters, that every single one of them failed to use them. They were either knocked out, didn't go over how to use them, or otherwise were unable.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:00 pm to HubbaBubba
My pilot is always in strict compliance with FAA regulations.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:05 pm to S
quote:
My pilot
Just your heli pilot or the jet guys too?
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:07 pm to baldona
quote:
I have a hard time believing that if they went over how to use the harness cutters, that every single one of them failed to use them.
This isn’t terribly surprising to me. Dunno if you’ve ever been through HUET, but going under like that is EXTREMELY disorienting. You’re trying to remember how to get out and execute tasks while upside-down and underwater, holding your breath trying not to drown, water in your eyes and flooding your sinuses, and everything that’s not strapped right to your body is floating around in a different place from where you saw it last. I could see it being very difficult for people without the underwater training. If you panic at all you’re fricked.
Still though, this..
quote:
Are they not strapped in the same with the doors closed?
..is curious to me as well. The hardest part in HUET training was getting the emergency doors/windows open. The harnesses in every helicopter I’ve been are very easy to release and the buckle is right on your chest/stomach. With the doors off I thought it should have just been a matter of popping the buckle off and swimming out.
The fact that they even had harness cutters indicates that this was NOT the case. I’ve never been on a doors-off flight but I guess the concern is that someone could bump their buckle wrong and fall out?
Either way expecting someone with no underwater egress training to cut themselves out of a harness is a bad idea IMO.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:22 pm to lostinbr
I'm thinking it was a harness that lets you hang in the door rather than strap you in the seat. In that case you dont want something easy to release. At any rate, bad idea to strap untrained passengers into something like that. Somebody's going bankrupt, if not to jail.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:27 pm to Jim Rockford
I am envisioning this as them strapping those passengers into something like a full body rappell rig that is straps and thread though friction buckles as opposed to something with a QR. No way I would let someone strap me to the aircraft with my only option being to cut my way out. If there wasn’t some type of QR in the system then someone really fricked up.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:41 pm to jbgleason
Yeah, it sounds to me like the passengers were wearing something similar to a fall protection full body harness attached to some type of lanyard to keep them from getting out the doors. If they were rigged in a similar fashion as a fall protection ststem, the lanyard is almost always attached to the D-ring in the back of your harness so it doesn't interfere with you arms. If that was the case, it would be difficult to detach the lanyard from your own harness under those circumstances.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:48 pm to White Roach
Dailmail uk has a picture of the harness but I don't see a d ring on the back.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:54 pm to Perrydawg
quote:
get the legislation passed in order to get a bigger share of the market it what I am getting from this.
FAA order has absolutely zero to do with any legislation.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 3:57 pm to White Roach
Ah ok, this makes sense now.
So basically the options were:
1. Quick release buckle with doors shut
2. Keep your arse from ever coming out of the buckle with doors open except for knife to cut them.
I mean I don't really see away around this, seems pretty obvious that you shouldn't have people in a damn helicopter with the damn doors open unless they have significant training and practice. Who would guess that doors open is a bad idea?
So basically the options were:
1. Quick release buckle with doors shut
2. Keep your arse from ever coming out of the buckle with doors open except for knife to cut them.
I mean I don't really see away around this, seems pretty obvious that you shouldn't have people in a damn helicopter with the damn doors open unless they have significant training and practice. Who would guess that doors open is a bad idea?
Posted on 3/23/18 at 4:05 pm to kengel2
LINK
Lawsuits already filed, apparently. I found another article that suggested the crash was caused by one of the passengers’ bags, apparently loose in the cabin, hitting an emergency fuel shutoff switch. If true this pilot is going to end up being hung out to dry.
ETA LINK
And the locking caribiners were on the backs of the passengers. So the only way to get out was either to have someone else release the clip or to cut the harness. Someone finna get paid.
quote:
Had the flight ended normally, FlyNYON staff would have released a locking carabiner to free the passengers.
“Despite being given a briefing on how to remove these additional harnesses using a provided cutting tool, none of the passengers were able to escape after the helicopter rolled over into the water,” the NTSB said.
The safety equipment should have had a single point release mechanism, but the one on the deadly flight did not, investigators said.
Lawsuits already filed, apparently. I found another article that suggested the crash was caused by one of the passengers’ bags, apparently loose in the cabin, hitting an emergency fuel shutoff switch. If true this pilot is going to end up being hung out to dry.
ETA LINK
quote:
CNN and ABC News, citing senior law enforcement officials they did not name, reported that Vance told investigators a passenger's bag may have inadvertently hit the emergency fuel shutoff button, leading to the crash.
And the locking caribiners were on the backs of the passengers. So the only way to get out was either to have someone else release the clip or to cut the harness. Someone finna get paid.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 3/23/18 at 4:10 pm to baldona
quote:
I mean I don't really see away around this, seems pretty obvious that you shouldn't have people in a damn helicopter with the damn doors open unless they have significant training and practice. Who would guess that doors open is a bad idea?
I don't understand why anyone would even want to have the doors off when they are doing a helicopter tour. It's noisier, very windy and cold as all get out when the doors are off.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 4:14 pm to lostinbr
quote:
This isn’t terribly surprising to me. Dunno if you’ve ever been through HUET, but going under like that is EXTREMELY disorienting. You’re trying to remember how to get out and execute tasks while upside-down and underwater, holding your breath trying not to drown, water in your eyes and flooding your sinuses, and everything that’s not strapped right to your body is floating around in a different place from where you saw it last. I could see it being very difficult for people without the underwater training. If you panic at all you’re fricked.
I have done HUET type training, it all seems straightforward and not that hard right up to the point you are in the water actually trying to get out.
Posted on 3/23/18 at 5:02 pm to EA6B
quote:
I have done HUET type training, it all seems straightforward and not that hard right up to the point you are in the water actually trying to get out.
I worked offshore for a service company in the early '80s. I flew to every job - PHI and Air Logistics. No HUET class.
I took flying seriously because I recognized it was dangerous. I always tried to sit at or near a door and know how to open it. An experienced hand told me that if we were going into the water, to cross my arm across my chest and make a fist pointing toward the door I was going out of and to grab the seatbelt next to the buckle with my opposite hand. If disoriented, your fist was pointing in the direction you needed to go and your other hand was ready to release the buckle. It sounded like good information to me. Glad I never had to try it out in practical application.
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