re: Explain the incel “movement” to me like I’m an idiot

the problem with that data is that it relies on "unmarred" as the group, because it's going for this explanation

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All sources, including the NSFG and NHANES, show the latest values to be higher than values estimated around 2000-2005. In other words, the share of the male population aged 22-35 who have never been married and haven’t had sex in at least a year is almost certainly higher than it was a decade or two ago. The exact trend, as well as whether this figure is still rising or not, is much more debatable, but the very broad outcome of higher sexlessness today than a decade ago is indisputable.

The main factor driving this trend, however, isn’t Chads and Stacies, but just declining marriage rates among young men. The share of men aged 22-35 who have never been married is higher today than at any time since the first data we have, going back to 1880. The married share for these men is far lower than the historic norm. Unmarried people have less sex in general, so even if celibacy rates within marital status are the same, the sexless population grows.

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the problem is that explanation doesn't refute the incel argument. it bolsters it

like i said earlier, too much of the argument for people trying to discredit these discussions is a focus on sex, not relationships

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This hard-core incel group is indeed growing as a share of the male population. The NSFG’s sample size, over 1,000 never-married men between the ages of 22 and 35 with sufficient questionnaire completion to estimate sexual behavior and reasons for virginity if they have not had sex, is large enough to be decently confident of these results.

But the 68% increase from 2002 to 2015 in the incel share of the male, never-married, 22-35-year-old population is mostly due to a decline in marriage, not never-married men having less sex. Rising involuntary virginity among never-marrieds accounts for around 27 percentage points of the increase, with the other 41 percentage points coming from a declining married share of the population.

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these men are denied serious relationships/marriage because of all the things we discuss in this thread

1. educational barriers matter. inter-educational class marriage (as i posted earlier) is getting more and more rare. more women go to college, even more women graduate, and even more women go to grad school. that stratification excludes more men every year.

2. hookup culture in college matters. due to the gender imbalance, men are more sexually valuable and won't commit. women want this ever-shrinking group of men and delay marriage to get one. this delays marriage, removing the incel population from this equation entirely.

people on the poles in this discussion skew the argument. the incels, due to learned helplessness, have essentially given up and are biased because of this. their opposition wants to frame this in terms of the light most favorable to feminism, and they reduce the argument to just sex (to the point where it's basically a straw man)

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It’s almost as if looks and money are secondary to wit, humor, attitude, and personality.

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It is to decent women but there are some that are willing to be treated like shite for the sake of status and money.

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It is to decent women but there are some that are willing to be treated like shite for the sake of status and money

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I see it all the time and it’s frustrating to single men but it is also an indication that the woman is shallow and damaged on some level. A man who is serious about creating a relationship out of thin air would not want that anyway.

I just tell women I'm the same height as drew brees

Still not buying it, but if true, perhaps we’re better off with these losers not reproducing.

You do know JT is secretly gay, right?

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You do know JT is secretly gay, right?

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I dont think its a secret and its just a gif

Thanks Owlie for clearing that up for my dumbass.

I look at my real life friends and acquaintances, and I don’t know a single incel. There is one guy who I haven’t spoken to in about 5 years who was probably an incel at the time and definitely said some of the same things that are now popular on Reddit (Red Pill/Blue Pill, rudimentary concepts of Chads and Stacys) but that is probably it.

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people on the poles in this discussion skew the argument. the incels, due to learned helplessness, have essentially given up and are biased because of this. their opposition wants to frame this in terms of the light most favorable to feminism, and they reduce the argument to just sex (to the point where it's basically a straw man)

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Of course it's not just about sex, but I posit that these people generally have a lot less to offer than they believe. They aren't just ugly, they're ugly and shitty people. They aren't nearly as clever, witty, or as funny as they think they are. Not only that, but their view of what a romantic relationship entails is about as far from reality as you can get. Many straight up admit their ideal girl is a sex bot that will also clean and cook.

Maybe a chicken and the egg situation, but they also fricking reak of desperation.