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re: El Chapo has his judge exicuto

Posted on 5/23/17 at 10:42 am to
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39945 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 10:42 am to
quote:

These groups aren't going away without violence.


they aren't going away unless people decide doing coke isn't fun anymore. All you do by creating stricter policing is drive the price up, which further incentives people to smuggle.

quote:

Again, we don't see this problem of cartel violence and uncontrollable terrorist organizations in the U.S. or Canada even though the demand is there. Why? Because we have a stable government, culture, and institutions. Essentially, you are saying that Mexico's condition is solely a result of demand, which is a complete and utter cop out and is invalidated by this discrepancy with other states.



because we are the end user and markets are spread out. Profits are much lower for the day to day drug dealer in the USA. The value doesn't change much once it reaches America so selling drugs isn't worth the risk

In Mexico, drugs are several times cheaper than in the states. Buy for a dollar, smuggle for 1000. Then here is only a hand full of desirable trading points for cartels, hence the violent wars along border towns. No different than 2 gangs fighting over a corner but a much more profitable and contested corner.


Posted by AZTarheeel
Member since Feb 2015
3702 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 10:53 am to
How do you know he was executed on Guzman's orders?

This is your classic robbery gone wrong, including forgetting to actually take anything.
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
17109 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 11:05 am to
quote:

they aren't going away unless people decide doing coke isn't fun anymore. All you do by creating stricter policing is drive the price up, which further incentives people to smuggle.


As I've already said, the goal isn't some utopian world where trafficking or usage disappear, it's to remove them from being a force that corrupts and delegitimizes state governance and sociopolitical order.

quote:

because we are the end user and markets are spread out. Profits are much lower for the day to day drug dealer in the USA. The value doesn't change much once it reaches America so selling drugs isn't worth the risk 

In Mexico, drugs are several times cheaper than in the states. Buy for a dollar, smuggle for 1000. Then here is only a hand full of desirable trading points for cartels, hence the violent wars along border towns. No different than 2 gangs fighting over a corner but a much more profitable and contested corner. 



Organized crime is not unique to the drug trade or Mexico. It can be corralled with adequate efforts. Again, Mexico's cartels are completely out of control, making certain areas no go zones for the state where lawlessness and disorder is rampant. They are engaged in terror violence. It's not just a turf war, we are talking kidnappings of civilians, family members or rivals or political leaders, savage murder and butchery that transcends all human decency. This ain't typical crime and violence.

You can live in the Utopia where the United States legalizes ALL narcotics while we are currently in the midst of a drug abuse epidemic, but the reality is going to be quite different. As it stands now, the Mexican people are going to continue to suffer the ill effects stemming from their leadership's inability to establish control over savage terrorist forces that contest the government's own legitimacy. The sadistic butchery that occurs right next door to us should be of great concern to all Americans.
Posted by Cocotheape
Member since Aug 2015
4242 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 11:15 am to
Mexico is a cartel state, at least to some degree. No one is disputing that.

Also, think there may be some confusion around who should legalize drugs: Mexico should legalize drugs, not the US
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
91701 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 11:15 am to
quote:

It probably was a paid hit, but you cannot rule out anything. FACTS.

did you even watch the video?
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39945 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 11:17 am to
quote:

Organized crime is not unique to the drug trade or Mexico. It can be corralled with adequate efforts. Again, Mexico's cartels are completely out of control, making certain areas no go zones for the state where lawlessness and disorder is rampant. They are engaged in terror violence. It's not just a turf war, we are talking kidnappings of civilians, family members or rivals or political leaders, savage murder and butchery that transcends all human decency. This ain't typical crime and violence.



You are arguing this and ignoring the stats I post of Pre-drug war Mexico. Since 2006, Mexico has used the army to fight the cartels and it has only gotten more violent.

The corruption? this may be surprising, but people don't like going to all out war with their countrymen and rather take bribes.
This post was edited on 5/23/17 at 11:18 am
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
53509 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 11:22 am to
You posted an article from last year.

El Chapo is currently sitting in solitary confinement in a maximum security cell in MCC in New York. He isn't issuing any orders from there.
This post was edited on 5/23/17 at 11:25 am
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
17109 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 11:23 am to
quote:

You are arguing this and ignoring the stats I post of Pre-drug war Mexico. Since 2006, Mexico has used the army to fight the cartels and it has only gotten more violent. 


I'm not ignoring anything. That violence ratchets up during efforts at rooting out and destroying the cartels is not some profound observation. Sure, leave them be to effectively run Mexico parallel to the legitimate government and in return they will kill and intimidate less. Sounds like a reasonable tradeoff for a government unwilling to do what it takes to be a first world state.

quote:

The corruption? this may be surprising, but people don't like going to all out war with their countrymen and rather take bribes.


I'm not surprised at all. This is what makes the Second and Third World the Second and Third World. Nations with higher ambitions fight those wars and die to establish organized and stable institutions for future generations. Like I said, Mexico's current state of being is pathetic.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39945 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 11:36 am to
quote:

I'm not ignoring anything. That violence ratchets up during efforts at rooting out and destroying the cartels is not some profound observation. Sure, leave them be to effectively run Mexico parallel to the legitimate government and in return they will kill and intimidate less. Sounds like a reasonable tradeoff for a government unwilling to do what it takes to be a first world state.



I just think it is not reasonable to double down policies that proven to fail and go against everything we know about market tendencies.

Posted by Farkwad
Byzantium
Member since Sep 2010
2669 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 12:13 pm to
Send Seal Team Six and Delta Force into Mexico to round up the leaders of the cartel and bring them back to the states alive and have them watch as Chapo is gutted and tortured. Keep going from top to bottom in rank and make them all watch and have it broadcast live in Mexico on every channel.
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
51400 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

Exicuto


Dafuq
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
58529 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 12:20 pm to
he looks like the guy that cuts my grass
Posted by bamarep
Member since Nov 2013
52397 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 12:44 pm to
Vito Corleone was right.


There is no honor in drugs.
Posted by SlapahoeTribe
Tiger Nation
Member since Jul 2012
12453 posts
Posted on 5/23/17 at 12:47 pm to
WTF is a Mexican judge, who judges members of the cartel, doing without a 24-hour armed security detail?

I'm actually quite surprised that these judges aren't kept in some form of hidden protection, like witness protection. Fly in a judge from out of the area, keep his name/face hidden during the trial, then flown out again afterward.

I know I wouldn't want to be the judge (or prosecutior, or juror) of a high level drug cartel member.
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