re: Do you think Great Apes could eventually evolve enough to have their own Stone Age?

quote:

---

Modern humans were created last and in their creators image. The gap of intelligence and learning and reasoning ability between modern man and any and every other life form that was ever created is astronomical.

---

So do you believe in aliens?

quote:

---

Probably the higher power described in their religious upbringing.

---

Yep

quote:

---

The apes have better social structure than the humans. Tighter family groups. Less violence. They have a surplus of food. They live longer. They have less illness and disease. They don't destroy their environment. They don't kill each other.

---

I’m late to the party and noticed you mentioned the DSS as proving the historicity of the Old Testament. Let me start here though:

quote:

---

Even the Qur’an acknowledges Jesus’ miracles and some are not in the Bible

---

What’s really neat about this is that the Quran mentions stories about Jesus that aren’t in our canonical gospels. You see, the origins of Islam are in Christianity- the first Muslims were a band of Christians who had a different set of gospels and who believed Jesus was a real man (not a pre-existent divine being and certainly not the one true God). You’ve listed a great example in my opinion of multiple parallel traditions of one faith group - Christians - all of whom would probably declare the other groups of Christians as not being real Christians just like the Protestants claim about Catholics and Mormons today.

What’s great about the DSS is it preserves not only the common canonical Old Testament scriptures so we can see what they used to be like before the Masorites changed a bunch of key passages to suit their theology (but kept 99%+ of the originals). Let me give you an example. Compare DSS Deuteronomy 32 vs the Masoretic text Deuteronomy 32 (if you want to compare in English, I’d suggest using the ESV verses the NASB). The Masorites took out the part of verse 8 where the most high God divides all the nations amongst his sons “the sons of God” and changed it to “the sons of Israel”. Also verse 43 the Masorites removed “bow down to him to him all you gods” completely (hey there is supposed to be just one god don’t ya know!) and they change “heavens” to “nations”. There are many more thousands of changes, some of the minor and without affecting meaning, and some major with a huge effect in meaning.

Another great thing about the DSS collection is the writings they originated. Their group charter for one. Another is the pesher on Habakkuk. Another is the Melchizedek scroll. Yet another is their preservation of so many copies of 1 Enoch. It painted the picture of their religious ideas and doctrines, which were far different than the second temple sect of Jerusalem (who could not have a king due to the kings of other nations replacing the divine king - the messiah - of the first temple cult). In fact the Essenes of the Qumran community who preserved those DSS thought the first temple religion was the one true and proper Israelite religion - a religion where they worshipped the Canaanite high god - El Elyon - and his son who inherited Israel - the Lord YHWH - and the mother god Wisdom/Holy Spirit. They believed the second temple cult were apostates and corrupt and they would have enjoyed seeing that temple crumble (as “Jesus” threatens to destroy the temple and build it back in 3 days in corrupted). The Qumran community awaited the return of Melchizedek- the divine king on earth and incarnate version of their patron deity YHWH (the Lord). Be thinking about that every time you hear or read “Jesus is Lord” especially in Paul’s epistles. He’s trying to tell you something. Paul believed YHWH, the patron deity of Israel, took on a body of flesh, was killed, was given a new more glorious pneumatic body by his father, was then given the name “Jesus”, and was raised up to the 7th heaven to sit at his father’s right hand, and earned the right to become judge over the whole earth. When Paul says “Jesus is Lord”, he is affirming that Jesus is the god of Israel, who they called Lord (“Kyrios” in Greek). In the OT, Kyrios is only used for the Lord the god of Israel who led the Israelites out of Egypt. In the NT, Kyrios is only used for… Jesus. In the NT, Jesus is never son of the Lord, but Jesus IS Lord and he is the son of God. Interesting huh?

quote:

---

You realize the resurrection was witnessed by 300-500 people over a number of days right?

---

That’s what Paul wrote, but it doesn’t make it historical. As Mo Jeaux put it, simply being written down does not make something historical. If you believe Paul about this, then I think you’d also need to believe in Mohammed pbuh ascension through the 7 heavens as described in the Quran since it is written down. Do your best to be logically consistent.

You also mentioned the Mesha Stele in an earlier post. That’s another great find and seems to corroborate a story recorded in 2 Kings 3 (but does not mean either story is 100% historical and accurate about every detail). It’s one of my favorite stories as the Lord of Armies “Yahweh Sabaoth” leading the Israelites coalition is defeated by Chemosh, the patron deity of the Moabites (and that part is corroborated by the Mesha Stele, but even if both sides believed it to be true still doesn’t mean it literally and historically happened).

quote:

---

The apes have better social structure than the humans. Tighter family groups. Less violence. They have a surplus of food. They live longer. They have less illness and disease. They don't destroy their environment. They don't kill each other. Exact same conditions. And the apes live -- by any measure whatsoever -- a higher quality of life than the humans. The difference isn't as great as you seem to believe.

---

First of all no matter what Ape you choose, none of them live longer than Africans. You think living deep in the forest vs a village is a better quality of life or equal? As far as Intelligence humans are in another stratosphere. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion

quote:

---

First of all no matter what Ape you choose, none of them live longer than Africans.

---

In the study group the apes lived to an average of 47 years and the humans an average of 43.

The apes had fewer social diseases, fewer parasites, and less violence.

quote:

---

ou think living deep in the forest vs a village is a better quality of life or equal?

---

TBH I think I d rather be a chimp living in the jungle or dolphin living in the ocean than a human in Somalia

Also for all our advancement we very well may bring an end to our species and possibly much of life on earth one day with our self destructive tendencies.

quote:

---

You know what else is mind boggling ..... 3.5 billion years....from a single cell organism to what you see in the mirror.

---

That would be if it were true and provable. Infinite space is though as we know the universe appears (from measurements) flat and not curved which would be creating a loop. So we know from it being flat that it's most likely infinite which is hard to wrap your mind around

quote:

---

Harald Ekernson

---

You need to throughly comprehend what you read. Most of the gospel writers wrote differently than Paul. Only one off the top of my head you could say was copied possibly. I don’t have time to get into that right now but you are largely incorrect

quote:

---

What does any of that have to do with the first emergence of single celled life on earth?

---

Because you are trying to argue that it's more mind boggling that what we see in the mirror today came from a single cell 3.5 million years ago vs something that is based in fact which is what you quoted from me.