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Message
re: Do you have a concealed & carry license?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:30 am to bayou2003
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:30 am to bayou2003
quote:Wow. Brilliant.
The monster is not going to hit everybody. So you'd be ok with 5-10ccw people in a theater of 50, people shooting at someone that's shooting. If it's dark, how will you know who fired the first shot...how will you know if it's planned or not planned by 2-3 people if another ccw start shooting. Next person with a gun will think the other ccw person is with the shooter or it's planned, etc.
Then you can get a group of people to plan a mass killing, they'll just say they are ccw. Just going to watch a movie.
0
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:31 am to Salmon
quote:
nobody is anti CC in this thread yet
Thank you...just don't want that shite in a dark theater. No way you can tell where the first shot came from if you're facing forward. Then let multiple people start shooting, how will you know who is the bad guy...bad guy can say he is there trying to stop the shooter when he let off the first shot.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:31 am to Salmon
quote:
I'm aware
just saying that in your example, he wouldn't be able to block all exits
Even with a pistol he really wouldn't have to. The panicked people all stampeding the exits would do a fine job of creating bottlenecks full of targets for him. If anything it would ensure he couldn't miss, even with a pistol.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:33 am to bayou2003
quote:
The monster is not going to hit everybody. So you'd be ok with 5-10ccw people in a theater of 50, people shooting at someone that's shooting. If it's dark, how will you know who fired the first shot...how will you know if it's planned or not planned by 2-3 people if another ccw start shooting. Next person with a gun will think the other ccw person is with the shooter or it's planned, etc.
It's possible. It's also possible the CCW carrier on the second row who isn't hit in the first 15 second of shooting will be able to fire very close to the shooter and help save lives.
I get annoyed when 15 minutes after a mass shooting some people start playing the "well this wouldn't have happened if..." game. But 100 times out of 100 I want people in the theater to have weapons if there is a well armed person trying to kill as many people as they can.
Notably, that is a limited situation. Sometimes the shooters have something else in mind, a few targets only, for example (common in workplace shootings), and it gets more dicey.
I do know that if I am ever in ANY of those situations, I would rather be armed than not armed. Whether I can use a weapon or not and whether it'll help anyone or not aside, the option is preferable to me.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:34 am to uway
quote:
The problem with these "Wild West shoot out" things being used as anti-concealed carry arguments is that they never happen
this is because most people, even if they CC, will choose to run in these types of situations
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:35 am to bayou2003
Also keep in mind that this is a message board so, of course, if they would have just been there, they could have stopped this happy horseshite clean in its tracks. Sort of like Marky Mark running his mouth about 9-11.
The truth of the matter is that it either takes a lot of training or you have to be of almost unique creation to be the one to stand up from (relative) safety (such as in this back of the theater scenario) and say "Here I am...shoot at me!"
And we're not getting into the whole processing speed thing since this was over in seconds.
The truth of the matter is that it either takes a lot of training or you have to be of almost unique creation to be the one to stand up from (relative) safety (such as in this back of the theater scenario) and say "Here I am...shoot at me!"
And we're not getting into the whole processing speed thing since this was over in seconds.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:37 am to bayou2003
quote:
Thank you...just don't want that shite in a dark theater. No way you can tell where the first shot came from if you're facing forward. Then let multiple people start shooting, how will you know who is the bad guy...bad guy can say he is there trying to stop the shooter when he let off the first shot.
So, just to be clear. You would rather have been in the Aurora theater than in a theater where the crazy guy had to try and kill people while being shot at himself?
Theater shootings are terrible situations. There's no way to make them good situations, so you have to try to make the least terrible outcomes more likely. One way to do that is to allow people to defend themselves with an effective tool.
"Hoping nothing ever happens" is not an answer. "Getting 90% of the unarmed people out while the other 10% die helplessly" is a shite answer. No one should ever have to die helplessly at the hands of a monster. That is evil and by disarming people we are furthering that evil.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:37 am to Salmon
quote:
this is because most people, even if they CC, will choose to run in these types of situations
And that's smart, especially if your family is with you.
Getting into a shootout right next to your kids is one of those "Only if you have no other choice whatsoever" decisions.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:40 am to Walking the Earth
quote:
The truth of the matter is that it either takes a lot of training or you have to be of almost unique creation to be the one to stand up from (relative) safety (such as in this back of the theater scenario) and say "Here I am...shoot at me!"
This statement exhibits a complete lack of any tactical or firearms knowledge. If you're armed and in that situation you don't just stand up like that. You take whatever cover you can, identify your target, then you engage the target. You don't just stand up and start blasting away.
This post was edited on 7/24/15 at 11:42 am
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:42 am to Walking the Earth
quote:
The truth of the matter is that it either takes a lot of training or you have to be of almost unique creation to be the one to stand up from (relative) safety (such as in this back of the theater scenario) and say "Here I am...shoot at me!"
Aaaaaaaarrreggggghhhhhh
What if you're sitting three seats to his left and he turns to his right first? Would you be able to stop him then?
We cannot predict what some wacko is going to do. We can predict that most people will run from danger of they can. We can predict that a high concentration of defenseless people will draw attacks and won't be able to effectively respond to them.
being armed gives people a chance to defend themselves and others. They may or may not take they chance, but removing it or requiring extensive training before you allow it just means people will be more likely to be helpless.
Aaaaaaaargh again
This post was edited on 7/24/15 at 11:43 am
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:42 am to Walking the Earth
So I assume the majority of people here are for CC in a place like a theater?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:45 am to Mullet Flap
quote:
by Mullet Flap
So I assume the majority of people here are for CC in a place like a theater?
I'm for it in every single place where no one can give a pretty reliable guarantee that me and mine won't be sitting ducks if a monster walks in with a gun, knife, bat, etc and starts killing people.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:45 am to Mullet Flap
Yep
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:45 am to Mullet Flap
quote:
So I assume the majority of people here are for CC in a place like a theater?
I'm in favor of CC everywhere. I'm also in favor of everyone with a CC being trained in both target and tactical use of a firearm in a safe manner.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:46 am to Salmon
quote:
The problem with these "Wild West shoot out" things being used as anti-concealed carry arguments is that they never happen
this is because most people, even if they CC, will choose to run in these types of situations
Honest question...how many people think they'd be able to hit the target in a DARK theater, hyped up on adrenaline from 10-20ft away??lol. Seriously. Unless you have law enforcement or military experience with a handgun, use to shooting under stress, I doubt if you'd hit the target in a dark room. Most can't hit a damn target 10-20ft away with a handgun in daylight under calm conditions. And this coming from a person that goes to the shooting range a lot since I shoot AK's and AR's.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:46 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
This statement exhibits a complete lack of any tactical or firearms knowledge. If you're armed and in that situation you don't just stand up like that. You take whatever cover you can, identify your target, then you engage the target. You don't just stand up and start blasting away.
Get the frick out of here with this oorah bullshite.
You're not clearing an area with your squad. You're a sole defender with an active shooter that you were in no way, shape or form expecting.
You're not going to OODA your way to a solution. You're either hitting the deck, running or immediately responding.
Take cover, identify and engage? Jesus...this shite is over in seconds. If protecting civilians is the goal, you pretty much have to respond immediately and either drop him or draw his fire.
He's already in the parking lot while you're getting trampled by escapees while you low crawl, chief.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:48 am to Mullet Flap
quote:
So I assume the majority of people here are for CC in a place like a theater?
I am 100% for the right to CC pretty much everywhere
My only argument is that 1) it probably will not help you 2) the average person will still flee 3)using it has just as much of a possibility of escalating the situation as it does de-escalating the situation
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:48 am to TDsngumbo
I have had one going on 20 years. I don't carry all the time but certainly will at movie theaters now.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:50 am to uway
quote:
'm for it in every single place where no one can give a pretty reliable guarantee that me and mine won't be sitting ducks if a monster walks in with a gun, knife, bat, etc and starts killing people.
Alright
I'll tell you why i think it's not a good idea, at all..You've got 15 armed men/women in a theater. You really think people are going to to want to go see a movie not knowing who all has a gun. Furthermore, pretty much any nut job can get a CC permit.
You mean to tell me you'd rather have 15 dudes you don't even know with handguns in a theater vs. a couple of trained officers and a birds eye view of anything going down in the theater?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:51 am to Salmon
quote:
So I assume the majority of people here are for CC in a place like a theater?
I am 100% for the right to CC pretty much everywhere
My only argument is that 1) it probably will not help you 2) the average person will still flee 3)using it has just as much of a possibility of escalating the situation as it does de-escalating the situation
I'm all for stores, etc. Just not in a damn dark theater. Like I've said..seen people shoot under calm conditions, they have permits, can't hit a target worth shite. Now imagine them hyped up, shaky, not thinking clearly....all in a dark place.
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