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re: Do you believe in the Fermi Paradox: The Great Filter?

Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:32 pm to
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6521 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

Agreed

Who knows. Whatever the case may be, we're toast if they come with bad intentions.

I hope for a more "Childhoods End" type of visitation. Or what's that movie that came out last year, Arrival? That was pretty cool.

None of it is good science though.



I got that book recently but havent gotten around to reading it yet. Havent seen the movie either.
Posted by Havoc
Member since Nov 2015
30538 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:37 pm to
quote:

Are you saying Indians are not homo sapiens

Gotcha. Then tell that to the buffalo (almost).
Posted by scrooster
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
38936 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:37 pm to
Forget the made for TV series ... it sucked. Read the book. It's well worth it. You'll end up reading it more than once because it's a short read but when you take into account when Clark wrote it, it becomes all the more amazing.

Actually, some have argued that Clark was from another world and was planted here by some advance civilization just to embed ideas in our collective nuggets.

He was a true visionary.
Posted by NOLA Brew Bus
1129 Decatur St.
Member since Aug 2016
583 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:38 pm to
We are on this planet to learn. Time & space is only relevant on Earth. The pryamids were built with technology we can’t even comprehend right now....our consciousness rises and falls throughout history. We’re in the middle of a paradigm shift right now so who knows what the hell is going to happen in the next 50 years.
Posted by Bullfrog
Institutionalized but Unevaluated
Member since Jul 2010
57092 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:41 pm to
Jeebus people.
The aliens already come and go as they see fit.

They mostly jump through ship-generated mini worm holes, relatively short but meaningful distances and gtfo in rapid fire succession as they travel from point A to point B. Mostly to keep on the course with fast re-calibration then off to the the next jump point.

The vast scientific and pure rationality required to build these craft and travel the galaxy tends to make them moral explorers vs. conquerors.

We’ll be fine.
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6521 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:42 pm to
quote:

Gotcha. Then tell that to the buffalo (almost).


So yes, humans do make other species go to or near extinction. But the theory I was arguing against was suggesting this behavior as a self- preservation measure. Humans did not overhunt buffalo to prevent buffalo from rising up and ending humanity.
Posted by chinese58
NELA. after 30 years in Dallas.
Member since Jun 2004
31024 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:02 pm to
quote:

That video zooming out from inside your brain particles til you see a human, then the world, then the solar system til you see multiple galaxies has always tripped me out.



This just triggered me into remembering I saw all of that last night when I took too much of that Hydrocodone cough syrup. Did I take too much of it, or did I take it too many times? Was I taking it every four hours, or every hour?

What were those bright lights I saw between where I lay in the bed, and the TV that got left on all night? What were those gold, and red shiny things I saw while in the emergency examination room trying to get more cough syrup today? Will I ever see them again?

Where is that prescription pad I had? Will eating a bunch of fruit help trigger a bowl movement? Multiple pots of coffee every day isn't working anymore, but I am losing weight.
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:04 pm to
space is too big. the chance of meeting another intelligent lifeform is probably akin to two blindfolded people across each other throwing a small marble and those marbles colliding in mid air.

Not only is space big, time is too. an intelligent lifeform might be billions or trillions of years older
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:06 pm to
quote:

It seems humans can’t evolve enough to be able to ever have interstellar space travel.


Human evolution as a biological species has come to an end. They are at their zenith. They can go no further.

The logical next step in the evolution of intelligence on earth is A.I. A new, non-biological species must be created to succeed humans.

With the birth of this new species, time will take on a new relevance. For humans the arrow of time moves too quickly.

The loss of information and experience because of the death of a short-lived human is too disruptive for the development of super intelligence. Also, the meat bag bodies of humans just cannot withstand the dangers of space travel.

Not so for A.I. The length of life for an artificial intelligence is indefinite, perhaps even infinite for a self-repairing and continuously growing entity. No information or experience will be lost because of death.

It is the evolutionary destiny and purpose of humans to create a self-designing A.I. An artificial super intelligence will rapidly follow and will launch itself into the Universe where its creators could not go.
Posted by Bullfrog
Institutionalized but Unevaluated
Member since Jul 2010
57092 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:36 pm to
Humans engineered with cold blooded reptilian physiology and a 10,000 year life span will be required if our space travel will depend on firing rockets for propulsion.

This will make hibernation during long spans of time necessary and the human form is not suitable for this.

Copper or silver ion propulsion systems will be a major key.
This post was edited on 11/20/18 at 9:40 pm
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8492 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:04 pm to
I don’t think we assume any one of those things.

But we have to start somewhere. What you’re describing as inflexible assumptions are simply our starting points.
Posted by EarlyCuyler3
Appalachia
Member since Nov 2017
27290 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:05 pm to
The Beyond

Quite an enjoyable movie that deals with wormholes and such. Highly recommend watching it.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:14 pm to
quote:

need Jesus you name calling .





so you don't have to think outside your lair.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:17 pm to
For now lets set up our solar system with defense.

Best as we can.

We are in kindergarten re space.

We'll mine the ocean depth and moon.

Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:20 pm to
quote:

Jeebus people. 
The aliens already come and go as they see fit. 

They mostly jump through ship-generated mini worm holes, relatively short but meaningful distances and gtfo in rapid fire succession as they travel from point A to point B. Mostly to keep on the course with fast re-calibration then off to the the next jump point. 

The vast scientific and pure rationality required to build these craft and travel the galaxy tends to make them moral explorers vs. conquerors. 

We’ll be fine.


glad to hear it.


Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:33 pm to
quote:

What's frightening is the Dark Forest theory:

-All life desires to stay alive.
-There is no way to know if other lifeforms can or will destroy you if given a chance.
-Lacking assurances, the safest option for any species is to annihilate other life forms before they have a chance to do the same.

Basically eliminate all life you discover before it can eliminate you. And we've been broadcasting our location for decades.


Ehhh im not buying it. Space is just incredibly vast and tracking inferior species down would be a massive waste of resources
Posted by SlapahoeTribe
Tiger Nation
Member since Jul 2012
12139 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:37 pm to
quote:

quote:

The fact that 2 cars can theoretically hit head-on but go right through each other without touching
At the quantum level the space between the sub-atomic particles that make up matter is enormous compared to the particles themselves so theoretically the particles making up two cars could pass each other in opposite directions without the particles colliding.

I’d say you’re in the right church, but you’re sitting at the wrong pew.

At the atomic level atoms are mostly empty space (more on that in a bit). If you were to expand an atomic nuclei to the size of a quarter, then the elections would be miles away from the quarter. But the “binding forces” prevent us from passing through walls or anything like that.



Quantum physics has more to do with the behavior of the fundamental particles and how they interact with each other. The idea that something can pass through something else comes from quantum tunneling- to understand how that works you need to understand that these fundamentals have a wave-like component. So think of an electron not as a particular object in space, but rather a “wave of energy.” And just like waves in the ocean, they don’t exist at one point, but rather spread out. Once we start talking about spaces smaller than the width of that wave, then tunneling starts to occur... but this only happens on the extremely small scale like in microprocessors where we’re concerned with the flow of electrons. At larger scales the “normal” forces of physics take over.

As an example of things passing through other things - Neutrinos actually have such little “mass” that their “wave” is incredibly small even compared to subatomic particles. They are very real particles but they interact with other particles so little that you have about 100 trillion passing through your body every second, but they never “touch” the atoms that make up our body.


That’s my best quasi-drunk explanation in layman’s terms.


If you really want to blow your mind, think about how in even empty space, the quantum world is constantly creating and destroy particles out of nothing. This isn’t some crazy theoretical thought, we can actually measure the force created by these very short lived particles.
Posted by SlapahoeTribe
Tiger Nation
Member since Jul 2012
12139 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 10:43 pm to
quote:

Source: Got my degree in Physics and Astronomy and spent far too much time doing homework calculating stuff like this. For subatomic particles yes this is a thing, anything larger and no it isn't.

Holy shite... there’s two of us on this site?


Posted by scrooster
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
38936 posts
Posted on 11/20/18 at 11:15 pm to
quote:

If you really want to blow your mind, think about how in even empty space, the quantum world is constantly creating and destroy particles out of nothing. This isn’t some crazy theoretical thought, we can actually measure the force created by these very short lived particles.

How about that LHC huh.

Next step is quantum computing. If they can only figure out that pesky little three atom thin membrane thingy.

We’re about to hit a wall. Well, errrr, we already have actually.
Posted by AlonsoWDC
Memphis, where it ain't Ten-a-Key
Member since Aug 2014
8948 posts
Posted on 11/21/18 at 1:30 am to
For anyone wishing to brush up on the Fermi Paradox and its big Great Filter question, I give you this breakdown.

LINK
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