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re: Do you believe in free will?
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:03 pm to DanTiger
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:03 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I hahppen to believe that all of our actions are predetermined, in a sense, by our genetics and our environment. I believe if we act in a certain way with a certain set of conditions we would act that way every time if we were somehow able to rewind time and all conditions were the same and we had no knowledge of the event or our actions to it the prvious time in this hypothetical scenario. Obviously there is no way to prove my theory but it is an interesting point for discussion. Do you agree or disagree?
What you're talking about here is predisposition, not predestination. They are not equal.
0
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:26 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I hahppen to believe that all of our actions are predetermined, in a sense, by our genetics and our environment. I believe if we act in a certain way with a certain set of conditions we would act that way every time if we were somehow able to rewind time and all conditions were the same and we had no knowledge of the event or our actions to it the prvious time in this hypothetical scenario. Obviously there is no way to prove my theory but it is an interesting point for discussion. Do you agree or disagree?
To prove you wrong, I decided to drink regular beer before dinner tonight instead of light.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:33 pm to Mizz-SEC
The chemistry and electrical impulses in your brain commanded you to drink regular beer. You just carried out the action.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:34 pm to DanTiger
We believe we have free will, which is all that really matters from our perspective.
In reality, all of our decisions are heavily influenced by society, genetics, etc. so I would say no we do not have free will in the truest sense. We must believe we have free will for society to function, though. If we dont, we have no way of holding anyone accountable for anything.
In reality, all of our decisions are heavily influenced by society, genetics, etc. so I would say no we do not have free will in the truest sense. We must believe we have free will for society to function, though. If we dont, we have no way of holding anyone accountable for anything.
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:35 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Do you believe in free will?
Yes, and I it is not by my choice.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:36 pm to DanTiger
People who say they don't believe in free will live like they do believe.
If you don't believe in free will, like the gorilla in front of the lawnmower says, there is no reason to be upset. When a person screws you over, it is not their fault.
If you don't believe in free will, like the gorilla in front of the lawnmower says, there is no reason to be upset. When a person screws you over, it is not their fault.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:52 pm to DanTiger
I'm not sure I would say "predetermined" because of quantum uncertainty, but I do think that any "choice" we make is the illusion of choice. We are just biological machinery reacting to external and internal stimuli, differing from clockwork only in degree of complexity.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:53 pm to SwaggerCopter
Agreed, we have to live as if free will exists, otherwise no one can be held accountable and the social contract crumbles. But choosing to live as if it exists doesn't imply actually believing.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 6:55 pm to DanTiger
As Lord Tywin Lannister once said: "No man is free. Only children and fools think elsewise."
Posted on 4/22/14 at 7:01 pm to DanTiger
You can't say genetics AND environment. Environment is an easy case. Genetically I should be a backwoods redneck working in the family construction business. Thanks to free will and a change in environment I am a culturally educated former redneck chef that is obsessed with all things asian.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 7:15 pm to Azranod
quote:
That was one of the dumbest replies ever. Just because the omniscient Creator knows what the poster is going to do does not mean the poster didn't choose that action. It simply means the omniscient Creator sees all paths and knows which one you will choose to go down. It's like the all seeing alien from Men In Black III.
Lol. Just pick and choose. You all have a different way of looking at it. The Christian earlier said he agreed with me. You think he just sees the paths. Give me a break
Posted on 4/22/14 at 7:32 pm to Carson123987
Do identical twins act the same way ?
Posted on 4/22/14 at 7:33 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
Geddy Lee sure does.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 7:37 pm to DanTiger
God gave us free will.
Has that been said yet?
Has that been said yet?
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:20 pm to MottLaneKid
quote:
Do identical twins act the same way ?
What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:22 pm to DanTiger
Yes
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:26 pm to DanTiger
yes.
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:35 pm to DanTiger
I do. I've seen people emerge victorious out of a shitty situation that they were born into. I've seen people born with privileges that most never see and throw it all away. YOU control your actions. Your environment may make it harder but YOU are responsible for yourself.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:45 pm to Crimson G
I'd like to make a few responses.
To Crimson G:
This line is a cop out, and it's wrong for two reasons. One, because it's completely ridiculous to believe one thing and base your entire life around that thing not being true. Two, because it's actually impossible to do so.
To TigerTreyjpg:
I just don't understand why anyone would think that having an omniscient God would necessarily rule out free will. Creating free will in others seems like the ultimate act of creation to me, and anybody who says that God can't do it seems to be limiting God in ways that don't make sense. Yeah, yeah, I recognize that it's a common problem for people, especially in light of the doctrine in the Bible that God wills all people to be saved, even though all aren't, but that's just semantics to me. God's glory is in His response to free will, not in whether any creature chooses a particular route or not.
To fnchdrms87:
Sam Harris is very moronic when compared to Daniel Dennett.
To GeauxTigerTM:
It's not that hard to argue though. Free will does not imply 100% freedom from environmental, genetic, and biochemical constraints. It just means that over time, a person can freely choose to build habits that make certain courses of actions more likely than others, and that this free choice is neither predetermined nor random, but rather something else.
To Crimson G:
quote:
Agreed, we have to live as if free will exists, otherwise no one can be held accountable and the social contract crumbles. But choosing to live as if it exists doesn't imply actually believing.
This line is a cop out, and it's wrong for two reasons. One, because it's completely ridiculous to believe one thing and base your entire life around that thing not being true. Two, because it's actually impossible to do so.
To TigerTreyjpg:
quote:
How can an omniscient God, who knows all moves before they are made, can change any move, or dictate any result of any move, give someone something called free will? They seem mutually exclusive to me. Can free will co-exist with a truly omniscient God? One that has predetermined every result or every action?
I just don't understand why anyone would think that having an omniscient God would necessarily rule out free will. Creating free will in others seems like the ultimate act of creation to me, and anybody who says that God can't do it seems to be limiting God in ways that don't make sense. Yeah, yeah, I recognize that it's a common problem for people, especially in light of the doctrine in the Bible that God wills all people to be saved, even though all aren't, but that's just semantics to me. God's glory is in His response to free will, not in whether any creature chooses a particular route or not.
To fnchdrms87:
quote:
I guess I shouldn't be totally disappointed by the nature of discourse on this topic. I was expecting to come in and see references to Sam Harris' writings from the get go, but only got a shout out 3 pages in.
Sam Harris is very moronic when compared to Daniel Dennett.
To GeauxTigerTM:
quote:
Not saying it doesn't still feel like I do, but it's hard to argue you do when it's clear your thoughts arise before you are aware of them and that you are less author of them than viewer.
It's not that hard to argue though. Free will does not imply 100% freedom from environmental, genetic, and biochemical constraints. It just means that over time, a person can freely choose to build habits that make certain courses of actions more likely than others, and that this free choice is neither predetermined nor random, but rather something else.
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