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Started By
Message
re: Disagree with government on Covid restrictions? Well you’re going on a terror watch list
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:55 pm to TxTiger82
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:55 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
I am being a man, trying to protect my family same as you.
Then get them vaccinated. That’s all you can do. You don’t get to strip my rights in the name of the safety of your family.
quote:
And what about those who are currently ineligible for vaccination? What about those who are too young to keep a mask on? What if some members of my extended family present dangers to members of my immediate family?
Let’s talk about cars this way. In 2018 636 kids under 12 died in car accidents. In a year and a half 349 kids 18 and younger have died of Covid. And of the chances of you dying in a car accident over the course of your life, the answer is 1 in 103.
If you’re asking these ridiculous questions with these stats, never leave your house again, make sure your kids always wear a rubber suit and a football helmet in case of lightning strikes or falling coconuts, and never eat raw oysters for fear of food poisoning. You’re not going to strip me of my rights because you’re an idiot, arrogant coward.
quote:
These are all questions that nobody has good answers for, and collective voluntarism has certainly not succeeded in protecting people's health and well being.
No, this post right here is a perfect answer for your idiotic questions. Really, this might be my best post in the history of this site.
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 2:57 pm
0
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:56 pm to crazy4lsu
“The government of today has no right to tell us how to live our lives because the government of 200 years ago already did!”
Uncle Jack, Always Sunny
Uncle Jack, Always Sunny
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:56 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
We've been living in a perpetual surveillance state since at least The War on Drugs and people still act like the Constitution isn't somehow already shredded.
I completely agree. However, we still have far more guaranteed rights than our socialist European counterparts.
quote:What case is this? Also, Obama killed US citizens without due process as well.
The justification that the Justice Department came up with to kill US citizens during the Trump admin (with the case concluded during the Biden admin) should have raised alarm bells, but didn't, as the standard was 'when state secrets were at risk' which is incredibly flimsy.
quote:
It all depends on when the security state decides to turn its eye onto you. We've given up a ton of liberty already. It's just been in the name of security.
I agree, and the COVID restrictions are powers that the government will use as precedent to grab more power in the future. Now that the Pentagonand the alphabet agencies don't have a foreign war to justify their ever-expanding budgets and missions, the coming war on "domestic terror" is going to be absolutely insane and will likely lead to some very serious conflict on our very own soil.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:56 pm to Scruffy
quote:
This is the most uneducated view of the European governments.
You do realize that they literally arrest people for speech, correct?
Are you willing to give up your 1st Amendment?
Remember when they used 9/11 to push the patriot act through and people accepted it under the guise of protection? The same shite is happening now but only worse. The PA eroded a lot of our freedoms and gave the Alphabet agencies pretty much unchecked power. People are too stupid to realize what they are giving up and will only realize it when its too late just like with the PA.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:57 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Ah yes, the ole anecdotal evidence.
OK, well how about the fact that North-West Europe and the former Commonwealth countries dominate QOL indices year in and year out. How about the fact that third-party research organizations such as VDem and Freedom House consistently rate many of those same countries stronger in civil liberties, press freedoms, and freedom of expression? How about the fact that those same countries consistently outperform us on metrics assessing the quality of public infrastructure? How about the fact that we pay more than any other country in the world for health care and transportation and education?
How's that for some evidence? I'm sure you'll reject it all, because you don't really want to argue you just want to take pot shots.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:57 pm to Scruffy
quote:
If the USG wants to make an enemy out of you, you think these rights will be respected?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely not, which is why it would be more appropriate for everyone to view the USG as the corrupt, warped institution it really is, rather than the benevolent savior TxTiger views it as.
Fact.
Only an authoritarian would worship a government that continually tramples on rights.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:57 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
You're giving me nothing but noise at this point.
You’re not worth anything more than that.
quote:
I heard you the first time.
And you keep proving me correct, so I’ll keep pointing it out.
quote:
You think I'm arrogant.
I know you are.
quote:
That's your problem.
It’s not a problem for me at all. You’re clearly very offended by it though.
quote:
I suggest you find a way to deal with it.
I have. Thoroughly.
Tell me again how my thoughts about you are not your problem.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:58 pm to TxTiger82
quote:SUre. Lots of former East Germans are really upset they lost so many freedoms when the wall came down. We need more socialism and authortarian in our lifes so we can be free.
In fact, people would be more free to pursue their own aims, not less free.
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:58 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
unless you're lazy
I am many things, but lazy is not one of them. And we've already established that I think you're the selfish one.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:58 pm to OMLandshark
Wasn’t it Locke that said government is a necessary evil?
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:59 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
OK, well how about the fact that North-West Europe and the former Commonwealth countries dominate QOL indices year in and year out. How about the fact that third-party research organizations such as VDem and Freedom House consistently rate many of those same countries stronger in civil liberties, press freedoms, and freedom of expression?
Lets see, In many of those nations you have no freedom of speech, which was THE key to liberalism
You don't want freedom, you want control.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 2:59 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
continually tramples on rights.
Like, say, Hungary and Poland? Or maybe Turkey or the Philippines? Or perhaps Brazil and India? Countries like those?
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:00 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I'm not trying to talk down to you. I'm trying to explain the liberal perspective, which is that collective voluntarism has failed during the COVID 19 pandemic and therefore some level of government intervention is necessary, warranted, and constitutionally justified.
quote:
I'm not trying to talk down to you. I'm trying to explain the liberal perspective, which is that collective voluntarism has failed during the COVID 19 pandemic and therefore some level of government intervention is necessary, warranted, and constitutionally justified.
May your chains rest lightly...
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:00 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
I think you're the selfish one.
Youre the one who wants the government to force people to do what you want.
That's the epitome of selfishness, and a total lack of being able to care for your own family.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:00 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
I'm in favor of state and local authorities implementing common-sense COVID protections. If you see that as coming at your expense, then all I can tell you is to get the vaccine. Problem solved. It's not that big of a deal.
Have you gotten the vaccine? If so, then problem solved and no need for the government authoritarianism you’re advocating for. Oh wait, you just destroyed your own argument.
quote:
Be a man and stop whining about it.
You telling anyone else to “be a man” and “stop whining”
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:01 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What makes any of this right? Are you supporting broad authoritarian regimes?
One would think the subtext would be clear from the context of the conversation, but in case it isn't, no, I'm not saying it is okay. But the only right-associated group that said the terror watch list, surveillance of Muslims in the US, the no fly list, etc, were bad were libertarians. Other than them, the people who advanced arguments against government surveillance, and their history of setting up morons to commit crimes so the FBI could justify itself to the public was in left-leaning media, up until 2015, when much of that media became retarded when Trump appeared.
It seems a very late objection to make of we are talking about the relative freedoms of social democracies versus the USG as it stands.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:01 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
In many of those nations you have no freedom of speech, which was THE key to liberalism
Wrong. In fact, many of those countries score higher on objective measures of expression and press freedoms. I cited two organizations that measure and publish such metrics in my previous post, which you clearly did not read closely because (again) you're not really arguing.
Honestly, you're starting to flounder a little bit here. Got you on the ropes? Starting to feel tired? I'm just getting warmed up, Roger. I think you've lost a step.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:01 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
I personally would prefer a European-style social capitalism hybrid system in which the state closely regulates markets and provides public and social infrastructure that makes everyones' lives better.
When someone says they’re going to make everyone’s lives better, Spoiler Alert: they’re lying to you. Only dummies fall for this. They are merely dictators who promise to make everything alright and then strip you of your humanity once they seize power.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:01 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Why would you assume that it is necessary to give up any personal liberty? In fact, people would be more free to pursue their own aims, not less free.
He says while advocating for the removal of personal liberty throughout this entire thread.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 3:01 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Like, say, Hungary and Poland?
This is America, why would I want to be like another nation?
You desperately want to be European, but you are addicted to the wonders of America, so you want to FORCE authoritarianism on your fellow Americans.
The things that keep you here are the things you want to change
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 3:03 pm
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