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re: Did you go to church growing up?
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:15 am to Jimbeaux
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:15 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
That’s not what Catholic’s believe.
There is one sacrifice of which the Mass is a participation in. It is not a separate sacrifice repeated over and over. This is the way that Jesus’ own apostles celebrated and worshipped. I guess those guys got it wrong and your church which was formed 15 minutes ago got it right?
I was a practicing Catholic for 20 years. I am fully aware of Catholicism's Rites, Rituals, and symbology / claim of the Mass "Sacrifice". Christ = Wafer. And yes, his (Jesus Christ's) "Sacrifice" IS INDEED repeated during EVERY Mass Communion.
Jesus' own Words (John 19:30): "IT IS FINISHED". (His Crucifixion Sacrifice of innocence on OUR behalf).
This post was edited on 2/5/22 at 11:17 am
1
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:17 am to Liberator
quote:
What about the dilemma of logic (or dis-logic) of addressing the notion that EVERYTHING has a Creator?
Using that rationale... who created the Creator?
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:19 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
I don’t see how it leads to losing actual faith in Christ. Faith in religion, or people, yes, but faith in Christ I don’t get. If you’ve come to faith in Christ, and He has come into your life and changed your heart, you are made aware of the vast difference in between the Pharisees playing religion and true faith in Christ, and how the two are not at all the same thing. For myself, experiencing the Pharisees of religion and experiencing God’s presence in my life only brought real meaning to what Christ was saying to the religious of His day in the gospels, and how true faith in Christ is the complete opposite of what they were teaching. Religion is not faith in as much as the law does not make one righteous, but is a means of showing you that you need a savior and mercy and grace in your life.
You would think that is the way people would see it, but many don't. They equate these fake church people with Christ and lose faith altogether. I've had many people tell me this over the years. I agree with you though, if you really have Christ other humans aren't going to make you lose faith in Him. I think many of these people who use this excuse are looking for an excuse, or never really had Christ. Nevertheless, as Christians our actions shouldn't turn people off from church or Christ, but many of them do. In fact, many "church people" turn more people off from Christ than on.
This post was edited on 2/5/22 at 11:20 am
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:21 am to SaintlyTiger88
Bible Belt culture is the worst. Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with believing and having a relationship with God but oh boy the culture that comes with small southern Bible Belt towns is absolutely awful.
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:23 am to MNCTigah
quote:
Who created the Creator?
Why presume Man MUST have the capability of knowing the thoughts and mysteries of an Infinite Almighty?
Guess what? Neither "Time" nor "Space" has a "beginning" that can be explained and understood by what is a FINITE human mind.
For some weird reason (hubris?) man and scientists believe they can "know" or understand the Divine. NOT happening.
EDIT: God tells us in His Instruction-History Book (the Bible, His Inspired Word penned through man) that, "I AM" and ALWAYS WAS.
Now we can either believe His story, or Man's story and Man's skepticism and challenge that God = Liar.
(I'll go with God's account).
This post was edited on 2/5/22 at 11:28 am
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:25 am to Kafka
quote:
frick your piece of shite arse for not going to church
How Christian of you.
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:29 am to Liberator
quote:
Guess what? Neither "Time" nor "Space" has a "beginning" that can be explained and understood by what is a FINITE human mind.
I agree. So that hubris creates something to conveniently answer all the unanswerable questions while overinflating our importance in the process.
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:32 am to BayouBlitz
quote:
>>>"frick your piece of shite arse for not going to church"<<<
How Christian of you.
I agree that this was an overreaction to your post.
That said, its seems that this was a personal over-reactive stumble and NOT a representative "Christian" opinion.
This post was edited on 2/5/22 at 11:33 am
Posted on 2/5/22 at 11:32 am to Liberator
quote:
I'll go with God's account
More power to you, honestly.
My experience is a different one and in my opinion, if there is a god, he is a vengeful, cruel God and not worthy of our praise anyway.
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:00 pm to Liberator
I'm not the one who made the statement that EVERYTHING has a Creator.
It's a common retort presented as an argument as to the validity of creation and/or intelligent design, but fails with the slightest bit of scrutiny because the Creator would then by necessity have to have been created.
And if the Creator DID NOT have to be created and always existed, then why couldn't that apply to the universe, sans a creator?
I was honestly just curious as to the mental gymnastics involved in defending the original statement.
It's a common retort presented as an argument as to the validity of creation and/or intelligent design, but fails with the slightest bit of scrutiny because the Creator would then by necessity have to have been created.
And if the Creator DID NOT have to be created and always existed, then why couldn't that apply to the universe, sans a creator?
I was honestly just curious as to the mental gymnastics involved in defending the original statement.
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:01 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Went sporadically during childhood, sporadically with my children and none now. Sometimes I attend Buddhist events, as they don't worship any deity and are not judgemental.
I respect the fellowship/programs churches offer, the great work many congregations perform in their communities, Catholic Charities (etc.) and well structured religions. I have learned lessons from specific sermons and metaphorical events depicted in christianity, but I am not a believer.
People say they know, but nobody knows.
I respect the fellowship/programs churches offer, the great work many congregations perform in their communities, Catholic Charities (etc.) and well structured religions. I have learned lessons from specific sermons and metaphorical events depicted in christianity, but I am not a believer.
People say they know, but nobody knows.
This post was edited on 2/5/22 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:02 pm to Displaced
quote:
More power to you, honestly.
Thanks, Brutha...
quote:
My experience is a different one and in my opinion, if there is a god, he is a vengeful, cruel God and not worthy of our praise anyway.
Believe it or not, I've been there at the precipice of questioning / misunderstanding God, His Word, and most importantly, The Gospel (Good News).
Churches and their Reps (Priests, Pastors, Minsiters, etc) do NOT necessarily rep Truth or even God.
The Bible tells us, HIS ways are not OUR ways -- and vice versa. He created a perfect world in Eden. ALL creation became corrupted -- because of man's disobedience and free-will choice on becoming "God-like".
So the author and cause of "Cruelty", Pain, Hate, Lies, of Catastrophe and rejection God, Truth, and is...NOT God, but Satan -- the Serpent. (The Liar Satan of course deceives man into "blaming" God instead of himself.)
Yes, this world may not make much sense at times -- and though it can be unbearably terrible and brutally nightmarish -- we are incapable of seeing His ultimate purpose, his reasons, and most of all His END GAME for those who endure -- The Faithful.
Will I, or you, or our friends and family pass the Test of Faith? And keep on reaching out your hand toward God as He extends His hand toward you?
Beyond the 85 years (or so) in this Mortal Coil, here is a promise and encouragement from God to you and I -- as well as to all Believers in God's Kingdom (For ALL Eternity):
Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.”
~ 1 Corinthians 2:9
And finally:
"And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more nor mourning nor crying nor pain; they will be no more, because the former things have passed away."
~ Revelation 21:4
Forever is a long time. We cannot "understand" God unless we open our heart to Him and start over again in trying to understand Him and His Plan.
There is no more worthy "investment" than in God's Word and strengthening your Faith and in His Promises.
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:11 pm to Liberator
quote:
I was a practicing Catholic for 20 years.
Don’t be ridiculous. 20 years of Catholicism doesn’t make you an expert, far from it.
Here’s a podcast from Trent Horn, Catholic apologist and theologian.
quote:
In this excerpt from his rebuttal to Josh at the Servus Christi YouTube channel, Trent answers objections to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist and how the Mass represents but doesn’t re-sacrifice Jesus Christ.
Catholic Answers website
Here is Fr. William Saunders at the Catholic Education Resource Center:
quote:
Please note that in no way do we as Catholics believe that Christ continues to be crucified physically or die a physical death in Heaven over and over again. However, we do believe that the Mass does participate in the everlasting sacrifice of Christ. First, one must not separate the sacrifice of our Lord on the cross from the events which surround it. The sacrifice of our Lord is inseparably linked to the Last Supper. …
quote:
Second, one must broaden our understanding of time. One must distinguish chronological time from kairotic time as found in Sacred Scripture. In the Bible, chronos refers to chronological time-- past, present, and future-- specific deeds which have an end point. Kairos or kairotic time refers to God's eternal time, time of the present moment which recapitulates the entire past as well as contains the entire future. Therefore, while our Lord's saving event occurred chronologically about the year 33 AD, in the kairotic sense of time it is an everpresent reality which touches our lives here and now. In the same sense, this is why through Baptism we share now in the mystery of Christ's passion, death, and resurrection, a chronological event that happened almost 1,967 years ago but is still efficacious for us today. With this in mind, we also remember that our Lord commanded, as recorded in the Gospel of St. Luke (22:14ff) and St. Paul First Letter to the I Corinthians (11:23ff), "Do this in remembrance of me." Clearly, our Lord wanted the faithful to repeat, to participate in, and to share in this sacramental mystery. The Last Supper event which is inseparably linked to Good Friday (and the resurrection) is perpetuated in the Holy Mass for time eternal.
LINK
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:22 pm to Greenie10
quote:
That kind of stuff really turns me off.
Luckily you’re not Orthodox Jew since you don’t like rules
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:23 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Yes, every Sunday morning and night till I was about 17. Wednesday night youth group until I graduated high school. 80% of Sunday morning services up until 4 or 5 years ago.
I grew up in a traditional non denominational church and prefer a more traditional service, but when they built a new building to accommodate more people, it shifted into one of those contemporary spectacles with a lot of sunshine pumping and what not, I quit going there. My parents, who are tied to it much more than I am (my great grandparents are founders, and my dad donated multiple tractors and dirt pan time to help build the foundation and road to the new building) have cut down to probably only going 50% of the time.
My wife and I also moved to a new town, and just haven’t been actively looking. Got invited to a Presbyterian church the other day, so we’re going to give it a shot next Sunday.
I grew up in a traditional non denominational church and prefer a more traditional service, but when they built a new building to accommodate more people, it shifted into one of those contemporary spectacles with a lot of sunshine pumping and what not, I quit going there. My parents, who are tied to it much more than I am (my great grandparents are founders, and my dad donated multiple tractors and dirt pan time to help build the foundation and road to the new building) have cut down to probably only going 50% of the time.
My wife and I also moved to a new town, and just haven’t been actively looking. Got invited to a Presbyterian church the other day, so we’re going to give it a shot next Sunday.
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:33 pm to MNCTigah
quote:
I'm not the one who made the statement that EVERYTHING has a Creator.
It's a common retort presented as an argument as to the validity of creation and/or intelligent design, but fails with the slightest bit of scrutiny because the Creator would then by necessity have to have been created.
So on what basis do you claim "Creation" and/or "Intelligent Design" supposedly "fails with the slightest bit of scrutiny"??
God's 'Forever" existence is based His own words and the Obvious.
ALL creations first require A CREATOR. Don't they? (Yes, even Time & Space).
Then again -- there are no scientific "laws" nor is man intellectually capable of understanding His Ways of The Infinite, so why even believe you could, would or will find the answer to your riddle? (outside of the Bible -- the Inspired Word of God)
quote:
I was honestly just curious as to the mental gymnastics involved in defending the original statement.
Frankly, I have never understood the extent and degree of mental gymnastics in AVOIDING the obvious with respect to God, Creation, and Design that could ONLY be of Divine Origin.
Here are 4 Bible verses in which God declares who He is (and will ALWAYS be):
* "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." ~ John 1:1
* "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” ~ Revelation 22:13
* “Who has performed and accomplished it,
Calling forth the generations from the beginning?
‘I, the Lord, am the first, and with the last. I am He.’” ~ Isaiah 41:4
* "He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end." ~ Ecclesiastes 3:11
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:36 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Grew up going to church. Now that I’m older, my faith is stronger than ever. God bless you all!
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:41 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
Don’t be ridiculous. 20 years of Catholicism doesn’t make you an expert, far from it.
Bruh -- That's 20 years of BEING Roman Catholic; That doesn't include my studies & examinations AFTERWARD of Vatican-RCC theology, philosophy, hierarchy PERSONNEL and practice, rites, rituals and symbolism.
Interview a dozen RCC "apologists" and you'll get 13 answers.
I've heard it before.
BUT because you believe Trent Horn brings something to the table, I will check him out.
FWIW, I knew "Josh" from the Servus Christi YouTube channel before he was an anonymous critic of EVERY ONE. smh
This post was edited on 2/5/22 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:55 pm to Jimbeaux
From your link (thanks btw)
"The Mass also involves the sacrifice of the whole Church."
HUH?? In what context?
Church is supposed to be about Fellowship with other believers and sharing the Gospel.
Went to your link; this must be an RCC off-shoot sub-denominational because this is a brand new explanation -- likely designed to defend the Vatican's long-standing ACTUAL practice and ritual of Mass (Priest holding up the host after a formulaic prayer and ritual pagan tradition of incense burning):
"THIS IS THE BODY OF CHRIST"
It is NOT "symbolic" as it should be; so this remains the reason why Communion in a RCC is so controversial.
(Hey, I'm only the messenger).
"The Mass also involves the sacrifice of the whole Church."
HUH?? In what context?
Church is supposed to be about Fellowship with other believers and sharing the Gospel.
Went to your link; this must be an RCC off-shoot sub-denominational because this is a brand new explanation -- likely designed to defend the Vatican's long-standing ACTUAL practice and ritual of Mass (Priest holding up the host after a formulaic prayer and ritual pagan tradition of incense burning):
"THIS IS THE BODY OF CHRIST"
It is NOT "symbolic" as it should be; so this remains the reason why Communion in a RCC is so controversial.
(Hey, I'm only the messenger).
Posted on 2/5/22 at 12:55 pm to Liberator
quote:
ALL creations first require A CREATOR. Don't they? (Yes, even Time & Space).
Exactly what I was saying. First mover principle. God then needs to have been created.
quote:
Here are 4 Bible verses in which God declares who He is (and will ALWAYS be):
The circular argument. God exists because it says so in the bible. Who wrote the bible? God.
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