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re: Did the common WWII German soldier know how evil Germany was?
Posted on 7/7/18 at 7:56 pm to beerJeep
Posted on 7/7/18 at 7:56 pm to beerJeep
quote:
We weren’t fighting a total war against the Germans.
The civilians who died in the Dresden firebombing would say "Hi!" Except that they're dead and can't do that.
quote:
Just like the Russians who looked to the Germans as liberators when they pushed east. Didn’t matter if they hated Stalin and wanted out. They were Russian. So they met their fate.
Absolutely. But this does not justify similar behavior on the part of the Russians.
1
Posted on 7/7/18 at 7:59 pm to foshizzle
quote:
The civilians who died in the Dresden firebombing would say "Hi!" Except that they're dead and can't do that.
Limited targeting of the home front doesn’t equal total war. By total war I mean a war of annihilation.
quote:
Absolutely. But this does not justify similar behavior on the part of the Russians.
Nope. But the war the Russians and Germans were fighting justified it.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 8:02 pm to theantiquetiger
My paw paw said many of them were decent guys. At least the POWs and ones he talked to. He said they considered the SS fanatics.
He told me his job was to kill Germans or make them surrender so it didn't matter if some were decent people.
He told me his job was to kill Germans or make them surrender so it didn't matter if some were decent people.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 8:22 pm to celltech1981
quote:
it wasn't that simple. in a lot of cases if they protested what was happening it didn't mean that they were going to die. it meant that they were going to die and their wife would be raped to death and children would be sent to camps
Daniel Goldhagen wrote a book about Police Battalion 101, which was assigned to the SS for killing actions. Early on it was discovered that some men weren't up to the task of murdering civilians. They were simply assigned other duties. No record of punishment that Goldhagen could find. Most, however, were quite willing to carry out their orders.
These were middle aged tradesmen, shopkeepers, etc, called to duty as police reservists.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 8:29 pm to CarrolltonTiger
Carrollton, the avg German soldier had no idea about life under communism in soviet union nor what it was like for serfs before the revolution.
You are projecting as if they knew what you do from historical perspective.
We have spectacular access to info. German Dudes were farming or mining or baking bread. Then marching.
Its not like Pravda was publishing a German edition about the death by starvation in Ukraine.
You are projecting as if they knew what you do from historical perspective.
We have spectacular access to info. German Dudes were farming or mining or baking bread. Then marching.
Its not like Pravda was publishing a German edition about the death by starvation in Ukraine.
This post was edited on 7/7/18 at 8:33 pm
Posted on 7/7/18 at 8:49 pm to theantiquetiger
Probably not. There's a famous picture that has been posted on TD a few times where German POWs are seeing footage of the concentration camps.
They knew Hitler was a racist, a eugenicist, and an anti-Semite, but those were mainstream views back then.
They knew Hitler was a racist, a eugenicist, and an anti-Semite, but those were mainstream views back then.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:02 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
They knew Hitler was a racist, a eugenicist, and an anti-Semite, but those were mainstream views back then.
It was certainly mainstream to talk anti-semite shite, but Hitler was proven fricking insane to think the world would applaud his efforts.
To the OP, equating WWII German citizens with Nazis is folly-like using youtube comments as a barometer for American values.
This post was edited on 7/7/18 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:11 pm to Yaboylaroy
sadly, people are easily brainwashed. it is happening today here from from both of our parties
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:13 pm to theantiquetiger
quote:
Did the common WWII German soldier know how evil Germany was?
They knew. The Nazis were pretty open about their anti-Jewish policies, and Hitler had written about "lebensraum" in Mein Kampf. Once the war started, the average German soldier would have actively participated in ethnic cleansing in Poland and, later, in the Soviet Union.
That said, the real question isn't whether they knew but whether they could have done anything about it. The Nazis killed political opponents from the beginning. Opposing them meant death. Most people simply went along to get along.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:14 pm to 14&Counting
quote:
SS was definitely in the Balkans. There was actually a Muslim SS unit raised in Bosnia.
Germans had soldiers from all over, not really a surprise.
Only death camps were found by the Soviet Union, no western country saw a death camp. Soviet's easiest propaganda to use of all time. If the United States would have been bombed to shite and no food getting anywhere during that war you can bet the same thing would have happened to the Japanese camps with people starving. Why didn't the Germans just kill the people in the camps when the war was lost if their goal was to genocide? Why would the German's do the Haavara Agreement in agreement with Jews to ship Jews to places like Palestine if they wanted to kill Jews? Why would Hitler try to get other nations, like Britain, to join the German war against communism if he was busy genociding people? Let's not forget that Poland was killing Germans in land ceded to them after WWI forcing Hitler to do something about it. Or that Germany and the Soviet Union both attacked Poland and everyone knew the Soviet Union was a piece of shite but only war was declared on Germany.
The TRUTH about: ? The Katyn Massacre ? The Rape Of Europe ? Eisenhowers Death-Camps ? The Genocide Of Germany ?The Last Days Of The Third Reich
LINK ]EUROPA - The Last Battle [Part 7]
Eisenhower's Rhine-Meadows Death Camps
Hellstorm ~ The Ugly Truth About World War II ~ HD
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:20 pm to zatetic
quote:
Only death camps were found by the Soviet Union, no western country saw a death camp.
That is 100% false.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:21 pm to TxTiger82
All camps considered death camps are in Poland. 100% fact
This post was edited on 7/7/18 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:21 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Once the war started, the average German soldier would have actively participated in ethnic cleansing in Poland and, later, in the Soviet Union.
Your second paragraph, albeit more realistic, doesn't excuse this ignorance. Right or wrong, there is no way you can support this BS.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:24 pm to theantiquetiger
quote:
Sitting here watching "Wonder Woman" (I know, that's WWI), and was wondering if the common, garden variety German foot soldier had any clue what was going on?
That's a pretty dumb comparison to compare WWI Germany with WWII Germany.
quote:
They had to know something, they were invading neighboring countries.
Ummm, have you read the Treaty of Versailles. Just imagine if there was a world war today, the US loses it, and we take all the blame, lose Southern California and parts of Texas to Mexico and parts of Washington and New England to Canada. What do you think our response would be? It's not black and white.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:24 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:
Germany was actively invading other sovreign countries. You don't have to have a degree in seminary to understand how bad that is.
A lot of those sovereign nations had territory that had belonged to Germany before WWI. The average German soldier looked at it as getting their territory back and avenging WWI. It really was just a continuation of the first war. The United States considered the early phases of WWII to be a European border dispute. So no, the average German soldier didn't know how evil their regime was. Nor did the average Russian soldier.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:26 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:
Germany was actively invading other sovreign countries. You don't have to have a degree in seminary to understand how bad that is.
Yeah, the Soviet Union was sovereign, despite the fact it recently starved 10 million Ukrainians to death. I promise you until Stalingrad was lost, no German (or really Allied Forces for that matter save for their own self interest) gave a frick what was happening to the Soviets.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:29 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
The tape of Nanking and what the Russian soldiers did when they entered Austria and Germany is absolutely horrific.
To be fair to the Russians, they weren't doing anything worse than what was inflicted on them. The Japanese were just animals though, and the entire Japanese Royal Family should have been killed for it (with the exception of anyone under 18, and they'd be taken hostages by the US).
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:34 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
What the Russians did was a lot worse than they received from the Germans. For the most part the germans beat, killed and destroyed. The Russians did that and more to the point where even the genocidal maniac stalin had to order his commanders to get control of their troops.
You're giving the Nazis way too much of the benefit of the doubt. Yes there were some honorable men in the military who were appalled by what was happening, and they commanded their troops to be civil, but for every one of them, there was another massacring villages at a time. The Nazis largely went scorched earth on the Soviets, and Hitler had every intention of throwing them all in the ovens right after he had wiped out the Jews. I'm certain he told every SS member to kill every last man, woman, and child they found.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:41 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
I am talking bashing newborns skulls in by the dozens and hundreds at a time.
The Nazis did that. It just depended on which platoon you ran into. If you had an old school WWI commander there, then you were probably good. If you had an SS officer leading the charge, this is exactly what they got.
quote:
Raping children as young as 5 and 6 until they are dead. Nailing women to rape structures so they dont have hold there legs open and forming lines to rape them until they die. If you think they had that right then you deserve a bullet yourself.
Listen, the Russians did go a bit more hardcore than the Nazis did, but the Nazis did wipe out entire villages just for shits and giggles as well, and raped the women while they were at it.
quote:
If you think they had that right then you deserve a bullet yourself.
I don't think they had the RIGHT to do that, but just comparing how the Nazis treated the Western Front and the Eastern Front, it's a no brainer. If you were a Brit, French, or American captured by the Nazis, you were going to live and be fairly well fed. Hell if you were an officer, they'd wine and dine you in spectacular fashion in hopes you'll let some secrets slip. If you were a Soviet, then your death was certain if you were captured by the Nazis. They didn't wine and dine the commanders, they tortured the officers for information. They just threw you on an open cold field with barbed wire and starved/froze you to death. The Slavs were next on the Nazis' genocide list. So I don't condone the Soviets actions (specifically in Warsaw), but I understand how they reached that point. I can't remotely say the same thing for the Japanese, which were just monsters.
This post was edited on 7/7/18 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 7/7/18 at 9:44 pm to zatetic
quote:
Only death camps were found by the Soviet Union, no western country saw a death camp. Soviet's easiest propaganda to use of all time. If the United States would have been bombed to shite and no food getting anywhere during that war you can bet the same thing would have happened to the Japanese camps with people starving. Why didn't the Germans just kill the people in the camps when the war was lost if their goal was to genocide? Why would the German's do the Haavara Agreement in agreement with Jews to ship Jews to places like Palestine if they wanted to kill Jews? Why would Hitler try to get other nations, like Britain, to join the German war against communism if he was busy genociding people? Let's not forget that Poland was killing Germans in land ceded to them after WWI forcing Hitler to do something about it. Or that Germany and the Soviet Union both attacked Poland and everyone knew the Soviet Union was a piece of shite but only war was declared on Germany.
And that folks is what a holocaust denier/apologizer looks like.
You are so morally bankrupt I’m not even going to debate you on your philosophical perversions here, but I will say that you fundamentally don’t understand “the final solution” and most of your knowledge on this topic seems to have come from a meeting where David Duke took the podium.
I will say you are saying things that are patently false. Every camp was also an extermination camp, so some were liberated by allies as well as soviets. The bulk of the exterminating did happen in Poland/Eastern front camps.
Hinzert Concentration Camp — almost in Luxembourg.
quote:
Between 1939 and 1945, 13,600 political prisoners between the ages of 13 and 80 were imprisoned at Hinzert. Many were in transit towards larger concentration camps where most would be killed. However, a significant number of prisoners were executed at Hinzert. The camp was administered, run, and guarded mainly by the SS, who, according to Hinzert survivors, were notorious for their brutality and viciousness.
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