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re: Could the South have won the Civil War with 100 AK-47s?

Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:46 am to
Posted by rmnldr
Member since Oct 2013
39867 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:46 am to
quote:

Could the South have won the Civil War with 100 AK-47s?


Giving them 500 NVGs could have.

100 AKs doesn’t make much of a difference. They’d run out of ammunition quicker than you’d think - even with a million rounds.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
71122 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:50 am to
Artillery of the time could definitely destroy it but it would require a lucky shot and a careless apache. If i were the union, all my artillery would be loaded with buckshot, concealed, pointed up, and hoping we could get lucky and bust the damn thing up.

In the mean time the confederate would be advancing and not under artillery fire. Everyone's up all night and all day. Evil dragon fricks up everything at night and sometimes during the day. Launch a few rockets into DC every now and then. Itd be an absolute terror.

On the ground is a major problem. How do you defend that one piece from a single rogue agent with a box of dynamite? It would obviously be a spectacle and difficult to keep it's location and planned ops secret.

Lots of ways it could go to shite for sure. It wouldn't take long for the big fire breathing confedert dragon wyvern thing to end it though. Massively effective both operationally and psychologically. I think the north would have to start talking settlement terms that day.

Eta: maybe not that day, because the reports would be so sensational that they would be unbelievable by any general or state leader who hadnt seen it themselves. Itd take a few days just for everyone to wrap their head around what was going on and fully realize how fricked they were.
This post was edited on 2/24/25 at 8:57 am
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26153 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:51 am to
I think the modern mortars make a huge difference. Far more accuracy and range than anything else out there, devastating counter battery fire enabling the Reb infantry to avoid being cut to piece by canister.
Posted by Beauw
Blanchard
Member since Sep 2007
4066 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:53 am to
100%
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
71122 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:53 am to
quote:

modern mortars make a huge difference


Yea, I agree with that. Dramatically more difference than infantry rifles of any type.
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
76373 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:54 am to
quote:

This is loosely lifted on an already written book called Guns of the South by Harry Turtledove, but it raises an interesting proposition:

Could the Confederacy, in the late stages of the war (1864) have won the Civil War with 100 AK-47s and a million rounds of ammunition?

How could Lee best unveil them on the battlefield to make the biggest difference? And how could he keep them from falling into Union hands?


No. People overrate full auto, and the south just did not have the numbers to offensively overpower the north without some serious weaponry. 1 million rounds is also only 330 magazines of ammo per gun, so just how many people is each gun actually killing, especially baking in training.

The more interesting question would be how many tier 1 teams fully decked out with resources (think boats, helicopters, comms, uab coverage, reasonable guns/explosives and unlimited ammo) would turn the tide. I almost think as little as two Seal Teams could have probably done it, purely due to taking out leadership than front lines.
This post was edited on 2/24/25 at 9:00 am
Posted by BigBinBR
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2023
9360 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 8:57 am to
quote:

Artillery of the time could definitely destroy it but it would require a lucky shot and a careless apache. If i were the union, all my artillery would be loaded with buckshot, concealed, pointed up, and hoping we could get lucky and bust the damn thing up.


I think you have to use naval chain shot that they used for taking down ship masts. Just shoot it in the air and hope you get lucky and wrap a rotor. But really how many shots are you going to get at it before the cannons are taken out?
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
76373 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:01 am to
quote:

I think you have to use naval chain shot that they used for taking down ship masts. Just shoot it in the air and hope you get lucky and wrap a rotor. But really how many shots are you going to get at it before the cannons are taken out?


What is an AK doing against the Monitor for example?
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
71122 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:02 am to
In real life, it probably gets 30 seconds into it's first hop and crashes into a confederate howitzer shell 50 feet in the air that some shell shocked deaf 16 year old kid from alabama lit off because he thought he heard fire.

I could totally see friendly fire completely ruining the whole thing.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39946 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:12 am to
quote:

By the summer of 1864 the Civil War turned into a precursor of the trench warfare of WWI



Seige of Petersburg looks like it could have been on the western front




This post was edited on 2/24/25 at 9:13 am
Posted by Weekend Warrior79
Member since Aug 2014
20816 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:26 am to
quote:

Would they be riding pterodactyls while using them?


If they had a couple dozen of these and those losers from the north would be staging reenactment battles imagining all of the "what ifs"
This post was edited on 2/24/25 at 9:29 am
Posted by jorconalx
alexandria
Member since Aug 2011
10709 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Better ones



So you’re gonna try and play it off like you knew that had them?
Posted by ProbyOne
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2004
1943 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:37 am to
Maybe if you put them all at Vicksburg along w ammo

But 100 AKs is only equivalent to 1500 civil war era rifles by rate of fire assuming semi auto
Posted by ProbyOne
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2004
1943 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:38 am to
And don’t forget the union had almost 15k Henry rifles

Lever action 15 rounds
Posted by FutureCorridor49
US 90
Member since May 2023
588 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 9:53 am to
Imagine how many more of its own generals the South would have shot if they had AKs
Posted by Harry Boutte
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2024
3796 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 10:00 am to
Why do you hate America?
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
71122 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 10:28 am to
quote:

100 AKs is only equivalent to 1500 civil war era rifles by rate of fire assuming semi auto


Right. Its not nearly the force multiplier you would initially think it to be.

Sure, in very localized conflict it could be a gamechanger. I don't see it altering the outcome of the war.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4045 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 10:31 am to
A better thought experiment is, could the south have won with a single p51 with unlimited gas and weaponry?
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
71122 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 10:33 am to
I think so. I think any WWII or later combat aircraft, assuming it could stay operational, is an auto win. The newer it is, the more abbreviated the conflict becomes.

The other side doesn't even have internal combustion engines yet, so they have no realistic means to counter aerial assault other than go underground.

The WWII warbird does change the conflict a fair bit. It wouldn't be effective at night so the enemy could just dig in during the day and stick to fighting at night. On 2nd thought, maybe it doesn't actually win the south the war.
This post was edited on 2/24/25 at 10:35 am
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26153 posts
Posted on 2/24/25 at 10:37 am to
I still contend the M30 mortars are the game changers You shatter the Yankee artillery anywhere on the battlefield and they re effective.versus entrenched and massed troops.
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