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Message
re: Can this 747 take off?
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:38 pm to NATidefan
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:38 pm to NATidefan
quote:
Not saying it doesn't have the force, but the wheels still have to spin faster than the treadmill so it moves forward to generate airflow over the wings.
The threadmilll matches the wheel spinning exactly (no matter how fast or slow they go)... so no movement forward.
I argue that the speed of the "jet airplane" is not limited to the speed of the wheels.
It doesn't take a lot for force to drag rubber tires forwards or backwards.
Imagine what 240,000 horsepower can do.
If a jet airplane can not generate enough force to drag rubber tires forward, I don't think we would be flying 800 mph at altitudes of 18,000 feet in the air.
1
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:38 pm to Power-Dome
quote:so you also ignore the question as it was asked. lol
and the jet will propel the treadmill track forward, while the wheels remain at zero rotation,
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:38 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
How? The axles of the wheels cannot move forward if the wheels are being counteracted by the treadmill.
This is not how planes move.... again.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:40 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
And the thrust will over come it
Overcome what?
the wheels have to spin faster than the treadmill for the plane to move foward or skid.
There is no reason for them to skid, cause the treadmill will just speed up to match the speed they are spinning.
Are you saying it is going to overcome the speed of our magic treadmill that can go any speed to match the wheels?
Well in that case, i'd say the magic treadmill with its infinite speed will overcome the 747's thrust cause it is limited.
IN FACT the magic treadmill can go Mach 40 and throw that 747 backwards through the hoover dam.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:41 pm to LNCHBOX
This guy explains it under the difference scenarios. In a frictionless world the plane takes off just as it would on a normal runway. With friction, both the wheels and the conveyor belt speed towards infinity and at some point the friction in the ball bearings in the wheels completely negates the thrust (I have no idea if this part is true). By the time we get to that point we are well beyond what is physically possible with modern technology.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:41 pm to Lonnie Utah
On a serious note, how do these EVER move?
I can hear the replies already...
I can hear the replies already...
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:42 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
so you also ignore the question as it was asked. lol
How so? I read the question as the the treadmill belt will match the speed of the wheels. In my scenario, the wheels and treadmill are moving at the same speed
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:42 pm to NATidefan
quote:
the wheels have to spin faster than the treadmill for the plane to move foward or skid.
They'll skid unless this magic conveyor belt also has enough force of friction to overcome the thrust of the engines. Which means the plane moves, which means given enough length of belt, it will take off.
quote:
IN FACT the majic treadmill can go Mach 40 and throw that 747 backwards through the hoover dam.
The wheel speed is irrelevant to teh plane speed.
I really don't see how yall can't grasp that,. Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:42 pm to Lonnie Utah
It has wheels under the water pushing forward on the ground.
No one ever looks underneath.
No one ever looks underneath.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:42 pm to NATidefan
quote:
Well in that case, i'd say the magic treadmill with its infinite speed will overcome the 747's thrust cause it is limited.
I'm going with the magic treadmill is pushing so much air at that point, lift will be achieved.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:44 pm to UpToPar
quote:
With friction, both the wheels and the conveyor belt speed towards infinity and at some point the friction in the ball bearings in the wheels completely negates the thrust (I have no idea if this part is true).
This makes no sense, as the plane would have to move for the wheels to start moving. Once moving, the treadmill would not be bale to stop the plane's initial movement, as the only contact the treadmill has with anything on the plane is the wheels, which are not part of the plane's "drivetrain."
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:45 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
This makes no sense, as the plane would have to move for the wheels to start moving. Once moving, the treadmill would not be bale to stop the plane's initial movement, as the only contact the treadmill has with anything on the plane is the wheels, which are not part of the plane's "drivetrain."
That's the problem wheel speed and treadmill speed aren't going to be equal.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:47 pm to Dam Guide
quote:
That's the problem wheel speed and treadmill speed aren't going to be equal.
But the actual constraints of the question say they are.
Wouldn't want you adding variables that aren't there. Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:48 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
But the actual constraints of the question say they are. Wouldn't want you adding variables that aren't there.
Again, that's why I keep saying it's a bad question meant to make people argue.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:48 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
This makes no sense
Correct, which is why the hypothetical is broken. The plane CANNOT move forward unless one of two things happens:
1. the wheel speed is greater than the belt speed or
2. the wheels skid across the belt
2 is not going to happen unless there is some braking mechanism applied to the wheels.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:49 pm to Dam Guide
quote:
Again, that's why I keep saying it's a bad question meant to make people argue.
But just within teh constraints of the question, I feel it's pretty easy to conclude the plane can move. Unless of course the coefficient of friction of the conveyor belt is magic as well. But that wasn't stated, so I will not assume it to be so.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:50 pm to UpToPar
quote:
2 is not going to happen unless there is some braking mechanism applied to the wheels.
The braking mechanism is the magic treadmill
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:50 pm to flyingtexastiger
quote:
I know most of y'all are relatively intelligent people. The levels of stupidity ITT are therefore even more amazing!
Hummm.. Why reply off my post... I fully understand that an airplane has to have wheels to fly.....
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:51 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
I came back to post this, but it's the same thing....
great minds
Posted on 4/11/24 at 2:52 pm to meansonny
quote:
It doesn't take a lot for force to drag rubber tires forwards or backwards.
Why would they drag or skid, the treadmill just speeds up to match the speed. Assuming the ball bearings don't burn up, etc.
More thrust just equals a faster treadmill.
Just as it takes more force from my finger holding a toy car on a treadmill in place as the treadmill speeds up. Maybe not much, but still more. If I push harder and the treadmill just matches it. Car goes no where, just like the plane.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 2:56 pm
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