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re: Boeing 737 Max
Posted on 10/30/19 at 11:14 pm to Cold Drink
Posted on 10/30/19 at 11:14 pm to Cold Drink
quote:
fricking Southwest Airlines (which I love).
Who then flew out and kicked the tires on the Airbus planes to see if they would 'work' in the swa model. They aren't exactly getting off scot free as they had to cancel a ton of flights because of the groundings (im not saying boo-hoo swa).....
However you are correct that swa and their love (and one of the reasons why they have been so profitable) with the 737 didn't help matters.
0
Posted on 10/30/19 at 11:17 pm to BHM
quote:
Mcas that relies on only one angle of attack sensor and not training pilots is the problem.
This, not including extra AOA gauge (Or heads up display) as standard, and changing it from being more limited in amount of trim movement & what situations it would kick in to what it became without updating FAA (and of course pilots on any of it).
Might have these reversed, but I think it was originally designed for a high speed & higher altitude maneuver with less computer pushed trim movement allowed and maybe even a 2nd sensor to kick in with certain amount of GForce Or something this maneuver would have along with AOA. Later they realized it was needed more often in in slower and lower situations which would also need more trim aggressive movement and only AOA sensor required to make these adjustments.
The plane’s computer after starting with pilot’s side would switch between AOAs each completed cycle of takeoff & landings or if powered down would restart with pilot’s side. It would not switch if during Taxi it already read 20 degrees or if during flight when co-pilot takes over like Lion or even if one gets struck and is pushed to 50 degrees instantly like Ethiopian Airline. For pilots to even know sensor readings was an add on. It’s like they never envisioned sensors going bad, that the added extreme movements could take place in higher speed situations, and regardless would be immediately recognized as runaway trim even though I read a few articles that it was reasonable for Lion pilot to first assume it wasn’t runaway as plane was responding to his counter trims.
If either flight had started with computer using other sensor might not have had issues but next flight may have if sensor not fixed (Ethiopian would have been).
This post was edited on 10/30/19 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 10/31/19 at 12:11 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
Boeing 737 Max
I'll never fly on one again. If I go to the airport, make my way through security and to the gate and see a 737 Max, I'm turning around and going back to my car or an Uber and going home.
Posted on 10/31/19 at 8:41 am to Pitt Road
quote:
The plane should have never been built in the first place.
Can we please let this ignorant comment go away. Airbus is having a similar issues right now with pitch controls supposedly not associated to their larger engines and them being positioned further forward on some NEO models. They claim it is just software issues and released and released an active directory.
Airbus and every other manufacturer has for decades implemented software "fixes" to deal with flight controls.
Airbus Pitch Issues - Leeham News
Posted on 10/31/19 at 8:53 am to CharlesLSU
To me..this seems like a dinner that got screwed up and the cooks solution was to just start throwing ingredients in...and that doesnt work well. In that case though you propbably get something you can live with - not necessarily "live" with in Boeing's case. Sometimes its just better to scrap the losses ..order take out and PR the heck out of how safety /quality minded you are
In Boeings case...they fall into that "too big to fail" tier....they would survive financially
Eta. Would not fly if i could avoid it
In Boeings case...they fall into that "too big to fail" tier....they would survive financially
Eta. Would not fly if i could avoid it
This post was edited on 10/31/19 at 8:54 am
Posted on 10/31/19 at 8:59 am to Vestigial Morgan
Perhaps the American Pilots are good enough to deal with an emergency on this plane.
However, I would think the goal is to build a plane that has as few emergencies as possible, not to build a plane that will have emergencies but it's ok because the pilots are "good enough to deal with it".
The moment when Boeing decided to use technology to overcome a physical limitation on the plane, is the moment someone (at Boeing, at the FAA, at the airlines, etc) should have stepped in and said, No, fix the physics or start over.
The longer this goes on, the more likely it is that these planes never fly again as passenger aircraft. Maybe they can be retrofitted for cargo use or something, I don't know.
However, I would think the goal is to build a plane that has as few emergencies as possible, not to build a plane that will have emergencies but it's ok because the pilots are "good enough to deal with it".
The moment when Boeing decided to use technology to overcome a physical limitation on the plane, is the moment someone (at Boeing, at the FAA, at the airlines, etc) should have stepped in and said, No, fix the physics or start over.
The longer this goes on, the more likely it is that these planes never fly again as passenger aircraft. Maybe they can be retrofitted for cargo use or something, I don't know.
Posted on 10/31/19 at 9:13 am to BHM
quote:
Can we please let this ignorant comment go away. Airbus is having a similar issues right now with pitch controls supposedly not associated to their larger engines and them being positioned further forward on some NEO models. They claim it is just software issues and released and released an active directory. Airbus and every other manufacturer has for decades implemented software "fixes" to deal with flight controls. Airbus Pitch Issues - Leeham News
First, I bet just about everyone at Boeing would now agree with that “ignorant comment,” so you don’t have much of a leg to stand on for that. Second, if you think the NEO is having “similar issues” as the Max, then how come I can book a flight on one right now?
Posted on 10/31/19 at 10:00 am to Cold Drink
quote:
First, I bet just about everyone at Boeing would now agree with that “ignorant comment,” so you don’t have much of a leg to stand on for that. Second, if you think the NEO is having “similar issues” as the Max, then how come I can book a flight on one right now?
Yeah sure, after two crashes, everybody wish they had done something different. That is a no brainer.
You can book a flight on the NEOs because the issue was identified prior to killing people. Good luck perhaps?
My point is that all aircraft need software/system components to make them fly safe. The MAX and NEO are included. The difference is in how Boeing implemented software and system changes.
If proper documentation and training would have been done, you could be be booking flights on the MAX right now. It does not mean the MAX or the NEO should have never been built. Both required engine relocations.
Posted on 10/31/19 at 8:56 pm to BHM
Except you still have it wrong. Yes both planes exhibit the pitch up tendency, but only the MAX deals with that tendency by flying the plane into the ground. So yeah except for that small detail I guess you can say they have similar issues.
And goddammit stop making me defend Airbus
And goddammit stop making me defend Airbus
Posted on 10/31/19 at 9:22 pm to CharlesLSU
NO!
I don't fly much anymore, but if (and when) I do I will avoid flying Boeing 737 Max.
I'll take the Sopwith Camel parked there on the tarmac.
It's a safer airplane.
I don't fly much anymore, but if (and when) I do I will avoid flying Boeing 737 Max.
I'll take the Sopwith Camel parked there on the tarmac.
It's a safer airplane.
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