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re: Back in Roman times, how did they decide who was on the front lines?

Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:35 am to
Posted by russpot
alexandria
Member since Jul 2007
425 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:35 am to
The youngest were in front. Had to earn spot in rear......
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
83526 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:37 am to
quote:

first blow I was a junior in high school


did you swallow?
Posted by TheCaterpillar
Member since Jan 2004
76774 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:41 am to
quote:

This is a question no one really knows


I'm sure there is plenty of war/battle strategy documented from Roman times.

Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
83526 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:42 am to
quote:

The youngest were in front. Had to earn spot in rear......

sounds like Vietnam
Posted by TheBorg
Member since Jul 2013
33 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:52 am to
quote:

No simple answer because you are covering 6 centuries of warfare. Depending on era they used 3 formations, phalanx, maniple and then the cohort.


This.
Posted by Barbellthor
Columbia
Member since Aug 2015
9587 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:58 am to
I've got a fictional book (Total War: Rome, Destroy Carthage) written by a guy with extensive knowledge. Based in Second Punic War time with Scipio. Historical fiction, so it will have a lot of reality. There is some historical, military, social, and political context in the forward.

Basically, it depended on wealth as to where your military path, equipment quality, and battle positions were. More or less: better money, better equipment, in the back. Lighter equipment got stuck with spears, which are better for the front positions. That's my understanding to that great question.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
102451 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 8:58 am to
quote:

Looking back at my 20 year old self and trying to connect with the Roman idea of war I see me on the front line shitting in my pants and just barely not running away screaming like a 3 year old girl.


The Romans were big on collective punishment. If you exhibited cowardice, not only would you lose your head, but 10% of your comrades, chosen by lot. Hence the term, decimation.
Posted by elprez00
Hammond, LA
Member since Sep 2011
30680 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:05 am to
quote:

The Marian reforms of the late republic abolished the class based army entirely, creating a professional, state funded army and thus wealth and class no longer determined the type of armor one brought to the field.

Please correct me but isn’t the Roman reformed army the basis of organization of all modern armies? Rank and file, etc?
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17437 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:08 am to
quote:

The Romans were big on collective punishment. If you exhibited cowardice, not only would you lose your head, but 10% of your comrades, chosen by lot. Hence the term, decimation.


If what you are saying is accurate, that is my all-time favorite origin of a word. Wow
Posted by Ignignot
Member since Mar 2009
18823 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:09 am to
Whoever had the hottest wives
Posted by airfernando
Member since Oct 2015
15248 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:21 am to
They put slaves and other conquered people on the front lines They did not put Roman citizens on the front.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
68454 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:25 am to
quote:

Whoever had the hottest wives


Too Jewish
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
83526 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:27 am to
quote:

Too Jewish

then how about a number 6?
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
19858 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:32 am to
Being a part of a Forlorn Hope is actually something units bid to win in the 1700s and 1800s, because while they knew most of them would probably die, they knew that if they were successful, they had a pretty good chance of getting glory and wealth
This post was edited on 6/29/18 at 9:33 am
Posted by TigerJeff
the Emerald Coast
Member since Oct 2006
16356 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:39 am to
The centurions with heel spurs did office work.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
92584 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 10:11 am to
quote:

Roman times


quote:

“Troy”



"Forget it, he's rolling."
Posted by danfraz
San Antonio TX
Member since Apr 2008
24550 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 10:13 am to
Penis size


Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
92584 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 10:14 am to
quote:

They put slaves and other conquered people on the front lines


Meh. Not so much.

quote:

They did not put Roman citizens on the front.


For all of the Republic and well into the early Imperial era, citizens were absolutely the front line - citizenship was required for a long time to serve in the legions, particularly in the infantry. They used auxiliaries (typically mercenaries) as cavalry, missile troops/skirmishers, but the rough and tussle combat with shield and sword in the legions maniples was done by citizens for most of what we consider the "Roman" era.
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
36607 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 10:14 am to
quote:

Elite in the rear.


Absolutely wrong.

Your most elite troops formed the front line on the RIGHT most flank. Especially at the times of the hoplite formation as these formations had a tendency to drift rightward due to the right side of your body being uncovered from the shield. You kept your most disciplined shock troops here to prohibit this and Lee the formation forward.

Also, you didn’t keep them at the rear as the rear lines played a far less role in the fighting than the front ranks. As these battles at this time really weren’t all day affairs. It was push until the line breaks.

So if your weakest and least trained forces were at the front, they would break the line and you would be fricked.

I’ve done a bit of reading on the hoplite and phalanx formation

Edit. Also, Roman times and the Greek times of Troy utilized extremely different battlefield strategy.

By the height of the Roman Empire the legion had replaced the phalanx which was used during Troy and the rest of the Greek period.
This post was edited on 6/29/18 at 10:18 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
92584 posts
Posted on 6/29/18 at 10:23 am to
quote:

Basically, it depended on wealth as to where your military path, equipment quality, and battle positions were.


Yes and no. Before Marius, most citizens had to provide their own equipment. The truly wealthy were generally in the cavalry (Equites), as they could afford horses and the maintenance on those. They formed a social class, essentially just below that of the Senate.

Again, during the pre-Marian times, the army of the Republic was largely age stratified. The youngest, strongest fastest - 20 to 30 year olds - were the guys in front - the Hastati. Sword and shield, they had generally inferior armor to the Principes who were older - generally guys in their 30s to early 40s. The final group, the Triarii were the wealthiest because they were the oldest, longest serving. They had the best armor, usually, and were armed with spears. These guys were throwbacks to the Phalanx era and would form a solid spear/shield wall behind which the army could retire in good order should things go badly.

Conversely, the Triarii were the legion's reserve, so committing them was the last option available to the commander. There was a Roman expression "going to the Triarii" which meant you were at your final option.

So, it was class based, driven primarily by age. The only real class they "bought" into was the Equites, from the Republic era.

Now, mid to late Empire, Rome increasingly expanded citizenship and essentially had German "mercenaries" in Roman uniforms fighting German barbarians, particularly by the 4th, 5th Century A.D.

This post was edited on 6/29/18 at 10:26 am
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