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re: Arizona officers storm house with guns drawn over toddler with a high fever
Posted on 3/29/19 at 2:55 pm to OweO
Posted on 3/29/19 at 2:55 pm to OweO
quote:
What started all of these anti-vaccination parents?
I don't know. Don't care. I don't align myself with any group of anybodies.
quote:
I know they think it causes autism
Like I said, I don't know but I do know that from the ones I have talked to and the material I have read and seen, it's not so much that they make any solid claim one way or another. That's exactly the problem they have with the whole thing. They don't know and they don't trust others that claim they do.
Like many things, consumer products and medicine alike, we don't find out the long-term deleterious effects until way after the public has been consuming the product for long period of time.
Pharmaceutical companies don't do long-term studies. They spend a lot of money in research for new drugs. For them to see an ROI they have to get it out on the market as quickly as they can to start seeing returns. They are not going to spend two lifetimes on giant case studies analyzing long-term effects of their all their products. They do CBAs weighing what they believe to be potential revenue based on market studies for a new drug versus any potential litigation that may arise. If the first number is greater than the second then the drug gets released pending approval. They literally place a value on people's health and their lives.
As a proponent of the free market I support their right to do so. This approach has produced some of the best medical advances humanity has ever seen. But there is a potential cost to that. Like anything else we consume, we have to be savvy consumers and look out for our own best interests.
We used to think mercury in makeup was safe. We used to think lead in our plumbing was safe. We used to think it was safe to spray DDT on our food crops. The list goes on and on.
Most of this is all about what we don't know or don't trust. Not what we do know.
I don't work in a lab responsible for formulating, researching or creating vaccines. I'm willing to bet that none of you do either. So I just take the same approach to medicine that I take the everything else in my life.
Leave well enough alone.
This post was edited on 3/29/19 at 2:56 pm
0
Posted on 3/29/19 at 2:57 pm to frankthetank
quote:
Sarah Beck brought her 2-year-old son to Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine on Feb. 25 and was told he had a temperature of more than 105, according to reports by the Chandler Police Department.
Shitty parenting should be punished
Should of tazed those f'in parents for every degree their kid was, over 98.6
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:03 pm to OweO
quote:
What started all of these anti-vaccination parents?
Millenials and Whole Foods.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:08 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:
With a temp more than 105 for a two year old, that's deadly. Bitch should have listened to medical advice
I took my 4 month old to the ER with a 105.3 degree fever. They checked for a couple of infections, and then sent him home. A fever like that isn’t deadly although it could indicate something serious.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:12 pm to Ricardo
I could LINK you a bunch of information about how polio was already on the decline and how the medical industry tried to write revisionist history to lay claim to that but you're not going to read it anyway so I'm not going to bother. You can do your own research on the matter if you're really interested in educating yourself.
Never mind the number of people that we're actually dying from it every year. Even at its most deadly year, which was a serious outlier, the percentage of people that actually died from polio was 0.0000022% of the population in the US. And most of those were people already had a compromised immune system.
I know this might be hard for some of you to believe but the medical industry is a business, first and foremost. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to do as much as possible to increase value. Sometimes that comes at the cost of human lives and health. Just like any other business.
Never mind the number of people that we're actually dying from it every year. Even at its most deadly year, which was a serious outlier, the percentage of people that actually died from polio was 0.0000022% of the population in the US. And most of those were people already had a compromised immune system.
I know this might be hard for some of you to believe but the medical industry is a business, first and foremost. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to do as much as possible to increase value. Sometimes that comes at the cost of human lives and health. Just like any other business.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:16 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:
Isn’t 105 brain damage territory?
It’s not. I learned this when my son had a fever over 105. We nearly got in a car wreck going to the ER because my husband was driving so fast. We thought his brain would fry. The doctor told us that fever cannot fry your brain. The body won’t run a fever that high. The only exception is if you have a child dressed in super thick clothing while he has a high fever.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:21 pm to pelicanpride
Stop!
You're ruining their pussy narrative.
You're ruining their pussy narrative.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:21 pm to nola000
quote:In 1950 (around the peak for polio), there were 152.3 million people in the US. So using you’re math, that means only 3.35 people died out of 152.3 million.
Even at its most deadly year, which was a serious outlier, the percentage of people that actually died from polio was 0.0000022% of the population in the US.
In fact, if we extrapolate those numbers to the estimated 100 billion people to have ever lived in earth, that means only 2,200 people could have died of polio, using its “peak” deadliness.
This post was edited on 3/29/19 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:22 pm to frankthetank
quote:
Plain and simple, the parents did what the kid needed and got a police raid for their efforts.
How can I trust your take when you intentionally left so much out from the article. It is as though you were trying to force a narrative. You may be right, the police may have been a bit overzealous. However, it seems to me that they were within their policing parameters. The parents, while leaving a lot to be desired, were not investigated for being poor. They were being investigated for being suspected of child neglect. Based on what I read, the police acted in response to the parents lack of compliance. The parents seemed to have chosen poorly.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:26 pm to nola000
Polio was on the decline because of rising sanitary conditions and it being a fecal-oral pathogen.
You trying to cite mortality rates for it however shows the slant of the kinds of sites you are reading for “research” however.
The fear for polio wasn’t death. The fear of polio was the risk (around 1%) of the infection going into the nervous system, causing lifelong muscle weakness and potentially paralysis.
And you can do nothing but watch and wait. Even modern medicine can’t help.
It all comes down to a risk/benefit chart. Do the collective risks outweigh the benefits?
You trying to cite mortality rates for it however shows the slant of the kinds of sites you are reading for “research” however.
The fear for polio wasn’t death. The fear of polio was the risk (around 1%) of the infection going into the nervous system, causing lifelong muscle weakness and potentially paralysis.
And you can do nothing but watch and wait. Even modern medicine can’t help.
It all comes down to a risk/benefit chart. Do the collective risks outweigh the benefits?
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:27 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
In 1950 (around the peak for polio), there were 152.3 million people in the US. So using you’re math, that means only 3.35 people died out of 152.3 million.
And this is why I used the phrase “try to cite mortality rates”
The actual count in the worst year was in the thousands....but again, a lot of the fear was paralysis
This post was edited on 3/29/19 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:29 pm to nola000
quote:So then they wouldn’t recommend a cheap vaccine when the diseases would require patients to pay much more to treat.
They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to do as much as possible to increase value.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:34 pm to nola000
The issue isn’t that it’s thought the fever would ruin the child’s brain, the issue is that the fever could have pointed to a deadly disease that the child wasn’t vaccinated for and the parent would not take the child to get tested for that disease. Stop trying to fricking point this somewhere else so you can further your narrative.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:35 pm to Saltwatersoul04
quote:Exactly. I think the naturopathic doctor (not the typical referral) was concerned the child could have meningitis.
The issue isn’t that it’s thought the fever would ruin the child’s brain, the issue is that the fever could have pointed to a deadly disease that the child wasn’t vaccinated for and the parent would not take the child to get tested for that disease.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:40 pm to nola000
quote:
And hey, if y'all still disagree, that's okay too. That's what wars and revolutions are fought over. I'm locked and loaded. How about you?
quote:
polio was already on the decline and how the medical industry tried to write revisionist history to lay claim to that
I guess all these iron lungs were just part of an elaborate plot to demonize polio, and nobody actually got paralyzed. Amirite?
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:41 pm to pelicanpride
quote:
The body won’t run a fever that high. The only exception is if you have a child dressed in super thick clothing while he has a high fever.
Think you are confusing “seldom” with “never”
I agree with not rushing to the doctor for fever alone though, which I have already said.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:46 pm to Saltwatersoul04
My whole point was just that I don't believe the government should be able to force medical treatment on people. Unless they're an indigent ward of the state or some shite like that.
I don't understand why that's such a controversial opinion. Especially around here with all the people who claim to be small-government conservatives who hold fast to the ideals of liberty the country was founded on.
I don't understand why that's such a controversial opinion. Especially around here with all the people who claim to be small-government conservatives who hold fast to the ideals of liberty the country was founded on.
This post was edited on 3/29/19 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:48 pm to pelicanpride
quote:
They checked for a couple of infections, and then sent him home.
Like meningitis?
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:49 pm to nola000
quote:
That's what quarantine is for. If somebody or group of people show a sickness then and only then do you act. You don't preemptively trump the rights of every parent all across the nation for the possibility that there might be an outbreak of disease.
Wait what?
The more of the shite I read from you the worse it gets.
So you are against government intrusion for vaccines, but for government intrusion for locking you and everyone you came in close contact with for potentionally weeks if not months in cases?
This post was edited on 3/29/19 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:50 pm to Volvagia
quote:
The fear for polio wasn’t death. The fear of polio was the risk (around 1%) of the infection going into the nervous system, causing lifelong muscle weakness and potentially paralysis.
Fair enough.
quote:
It all comes down to a risk/benefit chart. Do the collective risks outweigh the benefits?
I agree. And I think that's an analysis they should be undertaken by the individual or the parents in the case of minors. Certainly shouldn't be done by the government and forced under penalty of law or at gunpoint.
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