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re: Are tests like the SAT and ACT racist?
Posted on 7/17/20 at 12:32 am to LegendInMyMind
Posted on 7/17/20 at 12:32 am to LegendInMyMind
quote:
Such bullshite.
Id say so too. Louisiana is one of the states that spends more per pupil in impoverished areas than affluent ones.
The two states with the highest disparities between districts are Alaska and Vermont. The state that spends the most per student is New Jersey.
Black people have grown up being told not to speak like a white person. To not be smart because you are an uncle tom and it's not cool. Black parents used to, not sure if they still do, beat their kids to unlearn what they were taught in school.
0
Posted on 7/17/20 at 2:43 am to NoSaint
quote:
You don’t see how a test applied across millions of takers could have questions that have skewed results based on gender, economic status, regional origins, urban vs rural upbringing or, yes, race?
While that can happen, the SAT and ACT measure enough objective skills that culturally biased questions will only make a marginal difference. Even this marginal difference can be overcome by cultural competency.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 2:48 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 3:16 am to member12
If they substituted the ACT/SAT with a test like the ASVAB that measures not only your educational knowledge but also the skills you possess I would not be opposed. But no, neither test in question is racist, inner city schools are just shite.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 3:21 am to Fat and Happy
quote:
How is this not an insult to black folks?
It is. To even suggest this is actually racist.
A standardize test is as equal as it gets.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 7:21 am to member12
All test that stop these childrens from getting their education at any school they want just because are racist.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 7:38 am to member12
In certain ways, yes, but I think its more that they test a limited spectrum of "intelligence" - one that has been ingrained in white people / culture for generations and one that has been historically denied to outsiders until recently. So the kind of "intelligence" that it focuses on is more prevalent in once culture vs. another, certainly not excluded or unobtainable.
I just don't think they are very good measures and shouldn't be given such strong weight in college entrance considerations personally. I was a very good test taker, but I think we all knew / know people who were very smart, capable, hard-working individuals who just didn't have the same capabilities relative to test taking.
I personally think that our education system does a terrible job of recognizing the range of intelligence types and cultivating that for the biggest benefit of the country. The system isn't really built for that kind of education and I think it would be a great thing for us to completely revisit our public education system.
I just don't think they are very good measures and shouldn't be given such strong weight in college entrance considerations personally. I was a very good test taker, but I think we all knew / know people who were very smart, capable, hard-working individuals who just didn't have the same capabilities relative to test taking.
I personally think that our education system does a terrible job of recognizing the range of intelligence types and cultivating that for the biggest benefit of the country. The system isn't really built for that kind of education and I think it would be a great thing for us to completely revisit our public education system.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 7:40 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 8:05 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
I just don't think they are very good measures and shouldn't be given such strong weight in college entrance considerations personally. I was a very good test taker, but I think we all knew / know people who were very smart, capable, hard-working individuals who just didn't have the same capabilities relative to test taking.
Anecdotally everyone I knew in STEM scored above a 28 with almost everyone above a 30.
There are statistical outliers (I am married to one), but there is value in exams with predictive power for who tends to enter the hardest degree programs and succeed in them.
I will grant you this, the test is probably biased towards people with more analytical based intelligence. Someone wanting to major in a foreign language or the arts probably isn’t going to find these standardized tests to be very valuable in predicting their success in those fields.
However, claiming a cultural bias in the test is not seeing the forest from the trees. The test is a fine objective metric because it’s the same for everyone. If there exist racial disparities in test results, the causal factor probably isn’t the test that looks to be doing a good job with predictive power, but external factors where you might be able to point to relevant disparities between ethnic groups.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 8:10 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 8:08 am to member12
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/21 at 7:12 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 8:10 am to bird35
It's all about money. Just think of all the white kids the government can saddle with debt so the universities can keep their fiefdom. Just think how many pell grants could be issued at a cost to the taxpayers. Everything works against the working man. It's the seizure of your labor and freedom.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 8:13 am to member12
Lawrence fishburn said so in boys in the hood
Posted on 7/17/20 at 8:14 am to bird35
quote:
The only way to achieve equality of results in the future is to do away with the tests altogether.
Yeah, I would love to hear of an alternative to a standardized test that everyone takes with emphasis on English, reading ability, mathematics, and the scientific method that people would think would solve the perceived issue of bias.
I’m all for a more all encompassing test that can include other skill sets, as long as they remain standardized and the same care to remove bias is done with its sections, but I’m fairly certain the problem here isn’t the test; it’s that it’s easier to criticize a test for disparate results among groups instead of having more uncomfortable conversations for why members of certain groups aren’t retaining knowledge from pre-collegiate studies as well as other groups.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 8:17 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:02 am to Ross
quote:
Anecdotally everyone I knew in STEM scored above a 28 with almost everyone above a 30.
There are statistical outliers (I am married to one), but there is value in exams with predictive power for who tends to enter the hardest degree programs and succeed in them.
I will grant you this, the test is probably biased towards people with more analytical based intelligence. Someone wanting to major in a foreign language or the arts probably isn’t going to find these standardized tests to be very valuable in predicting their success in those fields.
That is exactly what I was getting at - but there are certainly useful degrees (not talking the whole new found social degrees here) which are outside the purview of STEM - so having scholarships, admissions, etc. heavily tied to this test that is somewhat limited in scope results in an unequal distribution to "access" for lack of a better word.
This is of course, taken in a vacuum without considering other factors which go into the above considerations for access/scholarships/etc.
I really just thought it was an interesting thought pattern and it ties into my personal feelings about public education and how we need to take another look and potentially rebuild it to better serve the nation and the young people coming up. And I don't mean go all in on the insanity of intersectionality and power dynamics like they are trying to shift to.
For example, if you look at jazz music, recognizing patterns and playing in that genre can be very similar to how very high level math, physics and other analysis are looked at in some ways at a fundamental level. If we can cultivate that kind of thinking at a young age, we could see a whole different sector of the youth bring a different viewpoint and potentially greatly advance theory in certain areas.
In that way, i don't think that our early education system or the ACT / SAT do a good job of cultivating and capturing that type of "intelligence".
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:08 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:07 am to Ross
quote:
Yeah, I would love to hear of an alternative to a standardized test that everyone takes with emphasis on English, reading ability, mathematics, and the scientific method that people would think would solve the perceived issue of bias.
I’m all for a more all encompassing test that can include other skill sets, as long as they remain standardized and the same care to remove bias is done with its sections, but I’m fairly certain the problem here isn’t the test; it’s that it’s easier to criticize a test for disparate results among groups instead of having more uncomfortable conversations for why members of certain groups aren’t retaining knowledge from pre-collegiate studies as well as other groups.
I agree with this - and considered looking at large populations - whole you have to look at home life, economic stability, stress levels, etc. which play a huge role - outside my personal opinions on how the whole education system is structured in the first place.
I think we lose a lot of kids by saving the "cool stuff" for way down the line with 3/4 of them are already bored. While you need a strong foundation before handling those specific problems and analysis, there is a huge gulf in what we could be teaching children in math / science at a young age in a general sense to inspire them, create a sense of wonder and imagination, at the same time as we are creating this fundamental foundation.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:08 am
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