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re: Are medical errors really the third leading cause of death in this country?
Posted on 5/5/16 at 5:44 pm to cwil177
Posted on 5/5/16 at 5:44 pm to cwil177
If the deaths aren't classified as medical error, what are they using to say that it is medical error.
There are a lot of sick arse people in the hospital. What percent would survive without medical care?
There are a lot of sick arse people in the hospital. What percent would survive without medical care?
This post was edited on 5/5/16 at 5:45 pm
Posted on 5/5/16 at 5:49 pm to cwil177
I believe patients often don't ask enough questions, seek 2nd opinions, or research their condition.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 5:51 pm to Ghost of Colby
quote:
I believe patients often don't ask enough questions, seek 2nd opinions, or research their condition.
On the other hand, I think some people have trouble accepting reality and when something happens they need someone to blame.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 5:54 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
The bottomline is people are expecting 100% accuracy
And low prices and immediate service and cheap meds and easy, painless treatment.
Don't go to doctors. You're better off taking your chances at home and not seeking care.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 6:09 pm to OweO
quote:
On the other hand, I think some people have trouble accepting reality and when something happens they need someone to blame
This.
I'm not saying doctors never commit malpractice, negligence, etc. But alot of the examples in this thread are just not the case.
Doctors have lives, families, 2year olds who keep them up all night. Have you ever been on call and been called multiple times in the middle of the night with any number of the hundreds of patients you have seen during the week complaining of headache, shoulder pain, leg pain? Should we send them all straight to the ICU/ED for close monitoring because they could have an aneurysm, ruptured spleen, pulmonary embolism?
Do you think they do that in Europe?
At some point everyone needs to realize the uncontrollable situations and inevitable outcome of this life. Especially in a society that demands perfection, but complains about the costs. You could more then likely have extremely low "errors", that they are describing here, but you would triple our debt in a week. That's just the reality of trying to fight nature.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 6:13 pm to SmackoverHawg
Posted on 5/5/16 at 6:57 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
And low prices and immediate service and cheap meds and easy, painless treatment.
I think patient expectations are about 60% of the problem. And I'm being conservative.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 7:04 pm to tigerskin
In response to cwill's original question... Go read the study. You should start to learn to not always trust everything that is published in a journal. I read it. It's extremely speculative and misleading. It's in the British Medical Journal. I could not find evidence of a peer review anywhere.
What they are doing is using small case studies of chart reviews citing medical errors. Taking that percentage and multiplying it by the number of total hospital admissions in the US. When you look at deaths from cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc. All of those are listed on a death certificate, but "medical error" is never listed. So it is easy to determine how many people died from cancer.
If you dig deeper into the studies that they get their statistics from. The numbers are very misleading. For instance, one study looked at ~800 hospital admissions. They found that 12 had what they considered "errors" that directly led to death. However 5 of these were from excessive bleeding from medication administration. Which I'm assuming is anticoagulantion. And these events could be after discharge. Bleeding from anticoagulation is a known side effect. Is it really a preventable error? In addition a physician review found that 9% of those incidents were "more than likely preventable".
So you do the math.
9% of 12 is 1.08
That's 1.08 preventable events per 880
that's 0.12% of hospital admissions
There are 35 million hospital discharges a year (very conservative number considering outpatient procedures, etc. That are not directly dealing with acutely sick patients)
That's 42,000 preventable events causing death per year
While that's a very large number and needs to come down. It's alot less than the 250,000 deaths they are estimating.
Statistics are easily skewed when you have an agenda
What they are doing is using small case studies of chart reviews citing medical errors. Taking that percentage and multiplying it by the number of total hospital admissions in the US. When you look at deaths from cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc. All of those are listed on a death certificate, but "medical error" is never listed. So it is easy to determine how many people died from cancer.
If you dig deeper into the studies that they get their statistics from. The numbers are very misleading. For instance, one study looked at ~800 hospital admissions. They found that 12 had what they considered "errors" that directly led to death. However 5 of these were from excessive bleeding from medication administration. Which I'm assuming is anticoagulantion. And these events could be after discharge. Bleeding from anticoagulation is a known side effect. Is it really a preventable error? In addition a physician review found that 9% of those incidents were "more than likely preventable".
So you do the math.
9% of 12 is 1.08
That's 1.08 preventable events per 880
that's 0.12% of hospital admissions
There are 35 million hospital discharges a year (very conservative number considering outpatient procedures, etc. That are not directly dealing with acutely sick patients)
That's 42,000 preventable events causing death per year
While that's a very large number and needs to come down. It's alot less than the 250,000 deaths they are estimating.
Statistics are easily skewed when you have an agenda
This post was edited on 5/5/16 at 7:07 pm
Posted on 5/5/16 at 7:06 pm to cwil177
Young docs on here,
Start thinking about wellness (as a standalone component of your practice, perhaps on a cash basis) through nutrition, activity, sleep, stress management (limiting meds). Younger folks do not want to wait to get sick then take meds. They want health optimization.
You will have ample other opportunities to heal the sick and fix the broken (the current sick care model)
Read as much as you can about wellness/health (hint: it will not be in the traditional medical journals...)
Posted on 5/5/16 at 7:38 pm to WaWaWeeWa
I would also add that the study they are using for their statistics is:
1. Published in "Health Affairs". What seems like a quack journal. And was never intended to estimate deaths.
2. Published in 2004. I can guarantee you that medical errors have decreased since electronic medical records have become widespread. I can't prescribe a medication without getting 10 different notifications of patient allergies or interactions.
So to summarize, this "news article" is a fricking joke. There is a reason they had to publish it in the British medical journal
/rant
1. Published in "Health Affairs". What seems like a quack journal. And was never intended to estimate deaths.
2. Published in 2004. I can guarantee you that medical errors have decreased since electronic medical records have become widespread. I can't prescribe a medication without getting 10 different notifications of patient allergies or interactions.
So to summarize, this "news article" is a fricking joke. There is a reason they had to publish it in the British medical journal
/rant
Posted on 5/5/16 at 7:48 pm to cwil177
Medical errors are often because of the disingenuous nature of the symptoms described by the patient.
Not a front. I'm no physician. I simply understand the nature of people and their unwillingness to be outright.
Not a front. I'm no physician. I simply understand the nature of people and their unwillingness to be outright.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 7:51 pm to LSUwag
quote:
They could not comprehend that the sliding scale does not work well with him. At one point, they allowed his sugar to rach 800. Yes, it was 800 while in the hospital. It fried his brian as a result of that incident. He nearly died several times and was comatose for a few days.
Which one of your genius family members was bringing him in food?
This post was edited on 5/5/16 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 5/5/16 at 10:06 pm to ThinePreparedAni
quote:
Read as much as you can about wellness/health (hint: it will not be in the traditional medical journals...)
It's highly emphasized in all the primary care journals at present.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 10:22 pm to YipSkiddlyDooo
quote:
Which one of your genius family members was bringing him in food?
Exactly.
Plus, I refuse to believe "sliding scale does not work well with him." I am about as far from an endocrinologist as possible yet I can manage any inpatient's diabetes just fine unless they're going nuts with their diet.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 10:58 pm to LSUwag
quote:
His malpractice involves improper diagnosis/testing because his original doctor did not order a culture and place him on antibiotics. He was not properly referred to a wound care clinic in a timely basis.
As a nationally certified wound specialist, I am sorry that this happened to your father. Don't assume that referral to a wound clinic would have improved the outcome. While there are some very good wound clincs, patients and medical professionals are very surprised to learn that most wound clinics are staffed by medical personnel who have no credentials to be considered knowledgeable about evidence based wound management. Unfortunately, I review cases of mis-management daily.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 11:09 pm to stlslick
Whereas my primary doctor listened to my symptoms, said it was probably pneumonia, but had me take an x-ray just in case.
That x-ray saved my life, and yes I'm missing half of my left lung, but I was a week or so away from sepsis.
That x-ray saved my life, and yes I'm missing half of my left lung, but I was a week or so away from sepsis.
Posted on 5/5/16 at 11:11 pm to cwil177
Define medical error?
Does deciding that you should have retroactively been able to call cancer in the early stages count?
Does deciding that you should have retroactively been able to call cancer in the early stages count?
Posted on 5/5/16 at 11:13 pm to LSUwag
quote:
LSUwag
I'm really sorry your father had to go through this. I imagine that is hell on your family. Thank you for sharing.
quote:
I believe patients often don't ask enough questions, seek 2nd opinions, or research their condition.
Patients are incredibly naive and ignorant of their own health. As a patient you can be your doctor's best ally, as no one knows your body, and your health, as well as you can. The majority of patients can't even be bothered to know what medications they are taking and why. Part of it is poor patient education on the part of the doctors (for many reasons... Including lack of time, and needing to see the next patient), but much of it is willful ignorance on the part of the patient.
People need to take more responsibility for their health. Healthcare is a team sport, and I believe patients should be active participants in that team. Patients should try to be well versed in their illness and their care.
If something doesn't feel right, speak up! No one is a better advocate for your health than YOU.
quote:
WaWaWeeWa
Thanks for your perspective. I've enjoyed reading your posts. What field are you in?
I didn't mention this in the OP, but a medical error could have killed me. I had a surgical abdomen due to a perforated ulcer, but the ER doctor sent me home despite legit 10/10 pain, a rigid abdomen, rebound tenderness, and guarding. Free air hadn't presented yet on X-ray, but given my condition the doctor should have used his gestalt to keep me for observation. My parents brought me to another hospital where the perforation was diagnosed and I was sent to surgery. I spent a week in the hospital for my troubles.
This post was edited on 5/5/16 at 11:35 pm
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