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re: AP: Parents begged cops to enter school as shooting unfolded. Cops refused
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:52 pm to Lakeboy7
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:52 pm to Lakeboy7
I’d venture to say there are a lot of people who’d go into a school full of 2nd - 4th graders even if they weren’t armed just to try to do anything to protect those little souls.
1
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:55 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
I’d venture to say there are a lot of people who’d go into a school full of 2nd - 4th graders even if they weren’t armed just to try to do anything to protect those little souls.
So we have to have a Border Patrol Agent, a guy that wrangles emaciated Hondurans and Mexicans all day, take the initiative and breech the door and kill this fricker? Not acceptable.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:56 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Yeah, 95 minutes after the first shots were fired. Local yokel cops in small towns are useless in situations like this.
Standard operating procedure for many decades in a hostage situation was to wait out the situation and not to press the hostage taker into doing something crazy.
That being said, Columbine was supposed to have re-written the book on school hostage crises. (Klebold and Harris were all too happy to have as much time as possible to savor killing anyone they met. Ergo, “waiting them out” was playing into their hands.) I was under the impression that SWATs across the nation are trained to immediately breach and eliminate the threat.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:58 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
In a town the size of Uvalde you're just not going to have high speed hard charging LEOs. There's not enough money to pay,train and equip them. It is what it is.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:59 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
Standard operating procedure for many decades in a hostage situation was to wait out the situation and not to press the hostage taker into doing something crazy.
He was literally killing the children during that 95 minute timeframe. He was doing something crazy.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:59 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Cops aren’t soldiers. They are just normal employees.
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:00 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
In a town the size of Uvalde you're just not going to have high speed hard charging LEOs. There's not enough money to pay,train and equip them. It is what it is.
Lots of small town municipalities contract out SWAT duties to county and neighboring municipalities. There are not any resources at all within 30 minutes of Uvalde that could have responded?
Edit: If not, then that’s a glaring hole in their resources.
(And I’m one to normally deride SWAT teams in other stories that are used for serving drug warrants. If there’s one truly legitimate situation for SWAT, it’s a school active shooter situation.)
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 10:03 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:02 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
n a town the size of Uvalde you're just not going to have high speed hard charging LEOs. There's not enough money to pay,train and equip them.
Yep, what you will find is the "Sheriff" or "Chief" and a bunch of his fat buddies and family. Zero training.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:08 pm to Lakeboy7
He was active in the school for 95 minutes?
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Civilians observing assessed the tactical condition in mere minutes, knew his exact position and weapons status, and decided that blindly rushing the gunman was the best course of action because LEO's onsite refused?
I'll wait until the proper after action report is done by competent authorities before implying that responding LEO's were cowards.
Which is highly, highly unlikely.
Tragic for the father who lost his daughter and all the grieving parents as well.
I'll wait until the proper after action report is done by competent authorities before implying that responding LEO's were cowards.
Which is highly, highly unlikely.
Tragic for the father who lost his daughter and all the grieving parents as well.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:11 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
Lots of small town municipalities contract out SWAT duties to county and neighboring municipalities. There are not any resources at all within 30 minutes of Uvalde that could have responded?
I live in a town roughly equivalent to Uvalde. In a tactical scenario we would rely on LSP and a mutual aid agreement with a neighboring parish whose sheriff's department has a SWAT team. Neither of those entities are on permanent standby. In the event of a crisis they would have to muster, which I assume would take 30 minutes or longer. Then they'd have to get here, which would take another 30 minutes under absolutely perfect conditions. So the earliest they could get here is an hour. Given IRL circumstances you could probably double that time. And if they happened to be tasked elsewhere, they wouldn't be available at all.
If some shite ever goes down, realistically we'd be on our own.
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:12 pm to AmosMosesAndTwins
quote:
But police have protocols for a reason
Serious question. When it comes to a shooter in an elementary school.. Should protocol go out of the window?
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:12 pm to Mr Breeze
quote:
I'll wait until the proper after action report is done by competent authorities before implying that responding LEO's were cowards.
In 2022, this is what should be done all the time. Initial reports and headlines are rarely the most accurate.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:13 pm to OweO
quote:
Serious question. When it comes to a shooter in an elementary school.. Should protocol go out of the window?
Protocol should never go out the window. That’s why it’s protocol.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:15 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
He was literally killing the children during that 95 minute timeframe. He was doing something crazy.
To be fair, all of the deceased were in one room. I doubt it took 95 minutes to kill them. It could be that the cops knew he was holed up in there and that there weren’t survivors/hostages.
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:16 pm to Jim Rockford
Fully admit, this is the opinion of a civilian, but it seems if you are the contracted SWAT service for a given area that is typically out of speedy driving distance, and knowing school shootings are all too common, you would have an efficient protocol in place to radio in all sheriff deputies to the school, have someone on call at the Sheriff’s office during normal school hours who can drive the wagon carrying all the mobile SWAT assets out to the school, have everyone muster at the school premises, have local PD brief you and get you up-to-date, and then begin the process of planning and implementing the breach to end the situation.
Edit: In any case, I bet you could seriously put together a decent plan of action that would assemble all the necessary assets and conduct a breach well before it got to 95 minutes.
Edit: In any case, I bet you could seriously put together a decent plan of action that would assemble all the necessary assets and conduct a breach well before it got to 95 minutes.
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:17 pm to AmosMosesAndTwins
quote:
Protocol should never go out the window. That’s why it’s protocol.
When someone is shooting kids, frick protocol.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:19 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
It could be that the cops knew he was holed up in there and that there weren’t survivors/hostages.
Probably a good assumption after hearing all those shots fired coming from the classroom.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:19 pm to OweO
quote:
When someone is shooting kids, frick protocol.
Emergencies are why you have protocol. Untrained humans do very stupid and irrational things under pressure.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 10:20 pm to Vlatket
quote:
acesnine
good lord...
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