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Message
re: Another police shooting ... Tulsa
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:48 am to dsides
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:48 am to dsides
quote:
And it doesn't prove that it was there. See how that works?
A black man with his hands up was shot and killed by police with 3 of them standing 10 feet away with guns drawn. He had no weapon and was not going for a weapon. It was all on video.
I really don't care what you think. And, whether it was inspired by racism or not is immaterial. The man is dead. It was horrible policing. It was likely because he seemed threatening. The question is, "Why?" She will never say that it was because he was black. That isn't ever how this works. And, therein lies the division.
2
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:49 am to AlaTiger
quote:
What difference does PCP make? What move did he make that was threatening?
PCP makes a huge difference. It's not very comforting to see someone not responding and acting irrationally when you're in a tense situation.
I'm not saying the cop didn't frick up, but don't act like the guy who got shot here couldn't have prevented it.
I know you want this to be a hundred percent one side's fault, but that's rarely how these things work.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:49 am to AlaTiger
With all the shite going on you would think police around the country would start using their brains more and maybe getting more training. Obviously not.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:51 am to AlaTiger
quote:
the person shouts the N word while engaging in a violent act
doesn't prove racism either.
quote:
What difference does PCP make?
lets ask the dead black guy...oh wait he is dead. hopefully he was acting shady b/c he was high if not he was just an idiot.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:52 am to LucasP
How could the guy have prevented it?
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:54 am to lolamontez
By complying with the officers orders and not trying to reach into his vehicle.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:56 am to AlaTiger
quote:
A black man with his hands up was shot and killed by police with 3 of them standing 10 feet away with guns drawn. He had no weapon and was not going for a weapon. It was all on video.
Nice try but you left out some details.
Also, they didn't know if he had a weapon or not. All they knew was that he was walking away from them acting strange and reached for something in or near the vehicle
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:57 am to LucasP
quote:
I know you want this to be a hundred percent one side's fault, but that's rarely how these things work.
Really? How do you know this? What clairvoyant powers do you have? Lottery numbers?
How about if police stop shooting people with their hands up? Or who are a care worker sitting in the street trying to get an autistic man to give up his toy truck?
What did he do to cause him to be shot dead? Tell me that and you might have a point. Being on PCP is not a reason to kill a man.
PCP makes no difference and who cares if the police are comforted because the man is stumbling around.
Should the police shoot drunk people? What if they are angry drunks? Should the police kill them? This makes no sense.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:58 am to tgrbaitn08
quote:
Nice try but you left out some details.
well yeah
Posted on 9/21/16 at 8:58 am to lolamontez
By not stopping a car blocking traffic on PCP. And then by trying to comply or at least communicate with officers.
Again, I'm not saying that this cop shouldn't be fired, she definitely should.
But don't canonize these jackasses when they get shot for preventable reasons. Sterling, Brown and a hundred others get exalted as great members of their communities when they're not. It's disingenuous and counter productive.
If you want real reform, use real facts. And if you want a real martyr, there's plenty to choose from, this guy isn't one of them.
Again, I'm not saying that this cop shouldn't be fired, she definitely should.
But don't canonize these jackasses when they get shot for preventable reasons. Sterling, Brown and a hundred others get exalted as great members of their communities when they're not. It's disingenuous and counter productive.
If you want real reform, use real facts. And if you want a real martyr, there's plenty to choose from, this guy isn't one of them.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:01 am to AlaTiger
quote:
Or who are a care worker sitting in the street trying to get an autistic man to give up his toy truck?
There's your martyr, you want an example of why reform is necessary then hitch your wagon to that horse.
But when you lump cases like that in with cases like Sterling, you're doing a disservice to your entire cause.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:03 am to AlaTiger
quote:
What did he do to cause him to be shot dead? Tell me that and you might have a point.
Being on PCP is not a reason to kill a man.
No but not following orders and reaching into a car where the officers don't know if they are pulling a gun or not can get you shot.
quote:
PCP makes no difference and who cares if the police are comforted because the man is stumbling around.
Correct but not following orders and reaching into a car where the officers don't know if they are pulling a gun or not can get you shot.
quote:
Should the police shoot drunk people? What if they are angry drunks? Should the police kill them? This makes no sense.
If they put officers in a shite situation and reach into a car where the officers don't know what is in there can get you shot.
Basically it boils down to don't be a retard. Find a real martyr and don't include idiots like this guy in the discussion.
Lady cop will get manslaughter, but as with most of these situations the victim acted like an idiot. It isn't 100% of the cop nor is it 100% on the victim.
This post was edited on 9/21/16 at 9:07 am
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:05 am to LucasP
quote:
But don't canonize these jackasses when they get shot for preventable reasons. Sterling, Brown and a hundred others get exalted as great members of their communities when they're not. It's disingenuous and counter productive.
100% this. Most on this board have said that the introduction of pcp does not justify the shooting but it does explain some things and to imply that this situation was simply a white cop shooting an innocent black man is a shortcut to thinking and misleading. Anyone singing that song has an agenda.
This post was edited on 9/21/16 at 9:05 am
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:06 am to tylercsbn9
When did he reach into the car?
The window was up and he never touched the handle. His hands were up until he was tased and then shot and killed.
He never reached into the car. He had no gun in the car. It made no sense for him to reach into the car. I don't know why he was walking around. There was no audio. What were police telling him?
Why did they draw guns on him? What had he done to cause them to draw weapons?
The window was up and he never touched the handle. His hands were up until he was tased and then shot and killed.
He never reached into the car. He had no gun in the car. It made no sense for him to reach into the car. I don't know why he was walking around. There was no audio. What were police telling him?
Why did they draw guns on him? What had he done to cause them to draw weapons?
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:07 am to LucasP
quote:
But when you lump cases like that in with cases like Sterling, you're doing a disservice to your entire cause.
I never mentioned Sterling. What is MY cause? It should be the same as your cause. I don't want police to shoot unarmed people with their hands up.
You do? Is what I want different from what you want?
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:09 am to tgrbaitn08
quote:
Nice try but you left out some details.
Also, they didn't know if he had a weapon or not. All they knew was that he was walking away from them acting strange and reached for something in or near the vehicle
What details did I leave out?
So, if they THINK he might have a weapon or might be trying to reach into a vehicle, then they can kill him? You're okay with that?
The window was up. He wasn't reaching into his vehicle.
Because he acted strange and walked away with his hands up, they can kill him?
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:10 am to AlaTiger
quote:
Why did they draw guns on him? What had he done to cause them to draw weapons?
What do you think is more probable, a large man acting erratically made a female cop feel threatened, or a white cop saw an opportunity to get away with murdering a black man and jumped on it?
I just don't see where your version makes sense. It's shitty police dealing shittily with a shitty citizen.
But let's find some common ground. She shouldn't be a cop, you agree?
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:12 am to AlaTiger
quote:
So, if they THINK he might have a weapon or might be trying to reach into a vehicle, then they can kill him? You're okay with that?
The window was up. He wasn't reaching into his vehicle.
Because he acted strange and walked away with his hands up, they can kill him?
That's the thing, he didn't tell them why he turned his back on them or went to his car. All they know is he's parked his car to stop traffic and he's acting irrationally, not a huge jump to think he might be dangerous.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:13 am to AlaTiger
quote:
When did he reach into the car?
Dude. Relax. Maybe he reached into the car maybe he didn't. Wait for the details to come out. That's one piece of the puzzle. The other piece is that this guy has twelve prior police interactions, 4 of which required use of force. His own dad admitted he has a pcp problem in a prior. If you continue to make poor decisions and lack personal responsibility you will eventually suffer the consequences. Was the cop in the wrong, maybe. But don't put your life in the hands of others and this guy continued to do it over and over again.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 9:14 am to AlaTiger
quote:
never mentioned Sterling.
My apologies, I just saw this argument taking a similar trajectory. When we talk about these cases, we need to discuss each on its own merits. I think we both want police reform, but I'm not willing to make up narratives to vilify police in order to get it.
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