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Message
re: An evangelical/fundamentalist giant has passed away. John MacArthur.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:29 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:29 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
I was kinda shocked to learn that many folks believe a believer in Christ doesn't have to be a disciple of Christ.
What is the difference in being a believer and a disciple?
1
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:34 pm to Canon951
quote:
What is the difference in being a believer and a disciple?
In my opinion, there isn't. But there are some "faith only" folks that apparently don't like things like Jesus saying"take up your cross and follow me".
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:43 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
"faith only" folks
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James 2:17
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:47 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
believe /bi-lev'/
intransitive verb
To accept as true or real.
"Do you believe the news stories?"
To credit with veracity.
"I believe you."
To expect or suppose; think.
"I believe they will arrive shortly."
disciple /di-si'p?l/
noun
One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another.
An active adherent, as of a movement or philosophy.
One of the original followers of Jesus.
That's American Heritage Dictionary definitions above but these obviously aren't the same thing. I'm gonna go ahead and admit before this goes any further that I am faith alone and I believe that is clearly what the bible teaches. Scripture is clear that belief is what is required to be saved. Discipleship and following the Lord are what comes after salvation. Don't wanna beat this dead horse again, just curious as to where you are coming from.
intransitive verb
To accept as true or real.
"Do you believe the news stories?"
To credit with veracity.
"I believe you."
To expect or suppose; think.
"I believe they will arrive shortly."
disciple /di-si'p?l/
noun
One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another.
An active adherent, as of a movement or philosophy.
One of the original followers of Jesus.
That's American Heritage Dictionary definitions above but these obviously aren't the same thing. I'm gonna go ahead and admit before this goes any further that I am faith alone and I believe that is clearly what the bible teaches. Scripture is clear that belief is what is required to be saved. Discipleship and following the Lord are what comes after salvation. Don't wanna beat this dead horse again, just curious as to where you are coming from.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:10 pm to Canon951
"Even the demons believe"
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:23 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
"Even the demons believe"
Salvation was never offered to the demons. Jesus became a man to save mankind. In addition to believing, what else is required in your view?
This is just a quick search from the Book of John. There are many others.
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name
John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:24
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:47
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:26 pm to Canon951
Just go study what the Greek word pistis.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:28 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
Also, what the word Christian literally means.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:33 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
My Sunday School teacher believes that the joy in heaven from someone believing is an example of a "fruit" or "work" of a believer who can otherwise live a carnal life
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:37 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
Pistis....from Strong's Concordance
1. persuasion, i.e. credence
2. (morally) conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher)
3. (especially) reliance upon Christ for salvation
4. (abstractly) constancy in such profession
5. (by extension) the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself
I'm with you that a true believer will change their life and seek to know more about Christ and follow him if that is all you are implying. But we are saved simply by believing in him. The lifestyle changes come after and some are farther along than others and then others may stay babes in Christ their whole life. But they are all saved the moment they believed. I'm trying to ascertain if you are adding works or a some standard to this faith.
1. persuasion, i.e. credence
2. (morally) conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher)
3. (especially) reliance upon Christ for salvation
4. (abstractly) constancy in such profession
5. (by extension) the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself
I'm with you that a true believer will change their life and seek to know more about Christ and follow him if that is all you are implying. But we are saved simply by believing in him. The lifestyle changes come after and some are farther along than others and then others may stay babes in Christ their whole life. But they are all saved the moment they believed. I'm trying to ascertain if you are adding works or a some standard to this faith.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:42 pm to Canon951
quote:If you believe it is going to rain, you will bring an umbrella. Simply mouthing the words is just noise.
believe /bi-lev'/
intransitive verb
To accept as true or real.
quote:
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
I Corinthians 13:1
Yes it is true -- as far as the Bible teaches -- that there is one way to Salvation, and it is through Jesus.
quote:
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
Acts 4:12
And the Bible is clear that we must endure with Jesus and not disown him.
quote:
If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us.
II Timothy 2:12
Posted on 7/16/25 at 2:02 pm to Lou
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
You left off the rest of that verse. He cannot deny himself and by extension us, because when we believe, we are now "in Christ". We become one with him and he can't deny himself.
He also clearly says in John that he will not lose one that his father has given him.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul refers to his audience as brothers in Christ and he is chastising them for the way they are living. He is counseling them and guiding them to put off the old man and live up to what they have been given. Not to be saved but because they are saved. No one is going to heaven by how well they behave.
My hope is in Christ alone for what he did for me. I've taken him at his word and nothing I do for the rest of my life will add one bit to what he did for me. There will be no boasting in heaven about how good of a Christian life we all lived. All glory will go to Him.
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
You left off the rest of that verse. He cannot deny himself and by extension us, because when we believe, we are now "in Christ". We become one with him and he can't deny himself.
He also clearly says in John that he will not lose one that his father has given him.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul refers to his audience as brothers in Christ and he is chastising them for the way they are living. He is counseling them and guiding them to put off the old man and live up to what they have been given. Not to be saved but because they are saved. No one is going to heaven by how well they behave.
My hope is in Christ alone for what he did for me. I've taken him at his word and nothing I do for the rest of my life will add one bit to what he did for me. There will be no boasting in heaven about how good of a Christian life we all lived. All glory will go to Him.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 2:07 pm to bayoubengals88
Christianity Astray is an awful publication. MacArthur was a steady voice for the Lord. He was a giant indeed.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 2:16 pm to Canon951
quote:This is it. In totality.
My hope is in Christ alone for what he did for me. I've taken him at his word and nothing I do for the rest of my life will add one bit to what he did for me.
quote:Mark Mattes "Ditching the Checklist"...literally MacArthur's checklist:
We should treasure and foster spiritual practices such as prayer, devotional reading, and scriptural meditation. Such activities anchor us in God’s Word so that God’s Word permeates our thoughts and feelings. God’s Word can pervade our imaginations and lead us to become more like Christ daily. These activities also accord with our nature since they remind us that, as creatures, we are completely dependent on God’s mercy. But they are not to be used as steppingstones to secure or increase spiritual purity before God. Being clothed in Christ’s righteousness is both necessary and sufficient for our standing before God (Zech 3:4).
quote:This, is what you would call, bullshite.
John MacArthur, a leading Evangelical pastor and theologian, provides a checklist to help provide assurance of their salvation or lack thereof.
If we progress in these matters, we (likely) are saved.1 What’s on the list? He provides eleven questions designed for our self-examination: • Have you enjoyed fellowship with Christ and the Father? • Are you sensitive to sin? • Do you obey God’s Word? • Do you reject this evil world? • Do you eagerly await Christ’s return? • Do you see a decreasing pattern of sin in your life? • Do you love other Christians? • Do you experience answered prayer? • Do you experience the ministry of the Holy Spirit? • Can you discern between spiritual truth and error? • Have you suffered rejection because of your faith? MacArthur is convinced that the ability to answer these eleven questions in the affirmative confirms that someone is truly saved. Notice, too, that the focus is on you—what you should do or experience, not on God and what God must do for you and with you.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 2:45 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
This, is what you would call, bullshite.
Is this aimed at me in some derogatory way? Not sure what you meant.
I have experienced most of that in my Christian walk that has had its highs and lows. But I am saved because Jesus says if I believe in him and what he did for me he would save me. Not because of some experiences that I've had or what John Macarthur said I should have.
Not everyone is at the same point in their walk with the Lord as others. Some people stick close, some stray. But once you belong to him he will never leave or forsake you. And like Jesus said, who of you with 100 sheep would have one stray off and not leave the 99 and go and retrieve the one? That's how he treats us. We can't get away from once we belong. Some people think it is all up to them. That they somehow are earning their salvation and they can't know for sure until they get to heaven. But scripture is clear we are saved the moment we believe. It is a gift from God for the simple faith in his Son. Praise God for that.
Ephesians 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 2:47 pm to Canon951
quote:No
Is this aimed at me in some derogatory way? Not sure what you meant.
Just the first part. Posted on 7/16/25 at 2:48 pm to bayoubengals88
Gotcha. I wasn't quite following you...lol.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 2:57 pm to Lou
quote:
And the Bible is clear that we must endure with Jesus and not disown him.
quote:
If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us.
II Timothy 2:12
And all this time I though Peter went to heaven?
Obviously this doesn't mean what you are saying it means or Peter actually did not go to heaven. Some scriptures aren't clear in their meaning and this is one, but that's why we interpret unclear ones with clear ones.
John 6
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
This post was edited on 7/16/25 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 7/16/25 at 3:41 pm to bayoubengals88
I’m Catholic. This guy thinks I’m going to hell. To hell with him.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 3:46 pm to RollTurds
quote:(I'm with you)...
I’m Catholic. This guy thinks I’m going to hell. To hell with him.
As I wrote:
quote:(lots of Catholics)....and many more
if he's currently in heaven, he'll no doubt be shocked by who he sees there.
This post was edited on 7/16/25 at 3:48 pm
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