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re: Americans Are Still Spending Like There’s No Tomorrow

Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:29 am to
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70420 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:29 am to
These are the actions of people who have realized one of the following:

1. The “old way” doesn’t work anymore. Saving and grinding at a job will never lead to long term prosperity anymore, just a continuous slide into more and more economic desperation. Over the last 5 years, my hours have been stable, I have increased my productivity and output, and my quality of life has plummeted. My wages have not increased anywhere near the cost of living. 5 years ago, my pay afforded me the ability to rent a 2br house by myself and have plenty of money left over to pay all my bills, save a nest egg, and take a modest vacation once a year. Today, that same job, I have to have multiple roommates to help pay rent and afford food, and even a short weekend getaway to a non-touristy city is unaffordable. The cost of food alone is double if not 3 times what it was. Insurance is up 50%. My experience is not atypical of white collar professionals who took the college to grad school to jobs pipeline in the late 2000’s-mid 2010’s

2. There is no future. Inflation is destroying the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar. As a result, those dollars will never be worth more later than they are now. If my dollar can essentially go only 1/2 as far now as it did 5 years ago, what’s the point in saving? Throw in that people are actively assuming societal collapse is inevitable, a nuclear war with Russia is inevitable, that civil war is inevitable, and that some crazy climate change catastrophe is going to kill us all before anyone can retire, so what else would they wait for? Do you not try to go out to eat at your favorite restaurant when you know it’s going to close for good at the end of the month?

3. Covid WILL happen again. The government has already demonstrated that they can lock us all down at any time with zero consequences for them. They’ll find another covid and take all of our freedoms away again, likely permanently. As such, this temporary reprieve should be appreciated before our authoritarian overlords begin culling us again without consequence.

4. Social mobility is very different now. The middle class is dead, and the only way out is to take big chances. Influencers make more money than most professionals. Professionals make less money than tradesmen. Being a college educated professional is just a pipeline to being a miserable unhappy drone who will never be able to afford a home or raise children (assuming you can even find and keep a decent romantic partner in the hell scape the dating industry has become). The only way out is to essentially win the lottery by either starting a business that blows up, invest in an emerging technology that blows up, hit the algorithmic lottery and make bank as an influencer, or win the literal lottery.

The best way to explain this phenomenon is to look at how people play the lottery. People actually behave incredibly rationally when it comes to lottery tickets. Our brains innately operate of the mathematical concept of expected value. Expected value compares the upfront price of an investment with how much it could potentially pay out in the future verses how long it would take to pay out and the odds of it doing so. The powerball has a very cheap entry cost, but very low odds to win. However, people rush to buy a lot more powerball tickets when the prize gets above a certain amount. Why is that? Well, it’s because above a certain prize point, despite the low odds, the expected value from purchasing a ticket becomes worth more than the price of the ticket. Thus, even if the odds of making it on a moonshot are just that, the reward actually outweighs the risk so long as you’re not buying too much upfront just ti play the game.

Hitting it big as an influencer is often about tapping it into the “keeping up with the joneses” mentalities of people, especially women. Hitting it big in business is often wrapped up in networking and successfully building up a facade of success. If hitting it big in these areas requires spending big to play the game, and that’s the only way to have a chance of winning, people will leverage the futures they don’t believe they have to get a chance at the big score. The middle class is dead, so the ability to move out of working class into middle is dead. So, the path out of the middle into the upper classes is similarly dead (because you can’t get to the middle in the first place). So, it now takes a moonshot to catapult out of working class into the elite. Might as well load the trebuchet and give it a shot.

5. Near death experiences. Covid, or the mental illness the isolation from covid lockdowns inevitably caused, nearly killed millions more than the disease ever harmed. These people came out of lockdowns knowing life is short, and they can’t wait another 30-40 years to start checking boxes on a bucket list. They could “die suddenly” tomorrow, so they better start living for the day. Thinking for the future is just anxiety. And anxiety cripples your ability to live in the present even more than depression keeps one stuck living in the past. The only way to fight the demons of anxiety and depression (according to modern pop psychology) is to live entirely in the moment. For people without kids or romantic partners, there’s nothing to fill the void in their present other than addictions, experiences, and consumption.

There’s basically an entire generation of traumatized people running from their past and avoiding their future through consumption just to try to stay in the present and not fall down an emotional spiral back into self-harm.

This is because of the death of community. There’s little involvement in civic organizations, churches, and in-person clubs for these people. Social media is everything, and it doesn’t leave people fulfilled, only wanting more real connections that are illusive.

Denied of a past to help define them, a future worth striving for, or a present of fulfilling relationships with others or purpose found through hobbies, family, and/or career, what is left but spending in the moment to make it all seem just a little less dire.

This is an entire world experiencing a mid-life crisis and trying to come to terms with its mortality.

The America we thought we knew is dead and gone. The world we live in now is dying in real time. What does that leave but trying to enjoy our favorite dishes while we can because the restaurant is about to close?
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
20868 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:34 am to
quote:

This may get downvotes, but I think Covid did a number on people psychologically. Even if it caused just momentary fear for the health and safety of you and your family, the reaction from many is YOLO, including taking more time off of work (retiring early, getting an easier job, etc.) and spending on experiences.



And a society perpetually becoming more and more selfish with very little insight or care for the future.

Imagine jacking up debt and refusing to contribute to society's future because "I got mines."

Many of these people probably don't have children, or they do and shouldn't have had children. They'll be old and decrepit one day, propped up on pills and surgeries, and their selfish kids will leave them on the curb. They'll scream for government help but one day, that help will be nonexistent because we don't have the money to provide adequate assisted living for one-legged Patricia with diabetes.
Posted by S1C EM
Athens, GA
Member since Nov 2007
11594 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:34 am to
quote:

We are still careful now so I don't have to eat cat food when I retire. We max out our 401k and IRA


Nothing at all wrong with what you're doing, but I sometimes think people grossly overestimate their needs in retirement. Many of the estimated figures I see these days would almost assuredly deter a huge chunk of people from ever even bothering with saving because they don't see where or how they can reach the goals laid out.

I know a couple that the wife had about $66k in her 401K and the husband had maybe a bit more than that but lost a bunch out of his post-2008, yet he retired 10 years ago and she did the same about 5 or 6 years ago and they are living fine. Their home is paid off, both cars were, but they bought a new one late in 2021.....and yet they still aren't hurting. Granted, they don't travel and have no interest in doing so, but it goes to show that how you do in retirement centers around what's important to you. He's picked up a side gig in the last year to keep him busy and get him out of the house, but he puts all that money back in savings. Getting ready to remodel their master bath in a couple weeks, paying all cash.

The number of people posting in this thread who won't live to see retirement age might shock people if they really gave it some thought. Some will get a year or two in and croak. Some will live to 100+. Frankly, solid life insurance for your family may be more important than maxing out your 401k. Nobody wants to think in that direction, though. I think Covid was a wake-up call for many.
Posted by Lawyered
The Sip
Member since Oct 2016
38316 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:35 am to
Same people who are like “I can’t pay my student loans after 3 years!!!” Somehow found a way to to go t swift and Beyoncé concerts across country and went to Greece with the girls too for a week

Posted by SidewalkTiger
Member since Dec 2019
70444 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:41 am to
I'm 30 and don't have a ton saved for retirement because frankly, I doubt it will matter.

Either inflation is going to kill my savings, there is going to be a massive crash, or AI will take over, who really knows?

I basically just put in the max that my employer will match, put some in savings for emergencies, and enjoy life. No debt except for my mortgage which is at 2.9%, I bought in 2020 and put a good bit down so already have about $100k in equity.
Posted by DakIsNoLB
Member since Sep 2015
1234 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:45 am to
quote:

My biggest fear is that my wife and I do the right thing and the government fricks us to buy the votes of this growing segment of the population who is financially illiterate and will be crying about being unable to retire in 30 years.



A legitimate one, at that. The bill will come due, and, like with everything, those who are responsible will be held responsible.
Posted by Burt Orangello
DFW
Member since Sep 2023
638 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 10:48 am to
This notion of “I don’t want to die with money left over/without having done X, Y, Z” is logically absurd.

The mere fact that we are all going to die means that either way - live it up or work hard and never enjoy life - it’s irrelevant.

Dead people have neither satisfaction nor regret. You aren’t looking back on what you did/didn’t do; you’re just dead.

The only thing that makes something enjoyable or painful is your thoughts/emotions about it afterward. Death means there is none of that.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70420 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 11:13 am to
quote:

This notion of “I don’t want to die with money left over/without having done X, Y, Z” is logically absurd. Dead people have neither satisfaction nor regret.


The dying have regrets. The dead just debts and estates.
Posted by LSU fan 246
Member since Oct 2005
90567 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 11:20 am to
Cool.

I hope your ship sinks also
Posted by LSURoss
Dragon Believer
Member since Dec 2007
16764 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 11:20 am to
quote:

$7,000 Alaskan cruise so his family could see the ice caps, which have been melting at a rapid clip.


Posted by real turf fan
East Tennessee
Member since Dec 2016
11917 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 11:30 am to
OTOH, the dollars we've saved are worth less than they were a month ago.
So, we've bought some things that we might not have. And Mr. Turf is going to buy the tractor he's been putting off buying for too long.

Some solid wood furniture from Clore in Virginia, some books for museum shows I didn't travel to see, possibly a new cook top if I can find one that's not digital, and a hardwired generator are anticipated. Not as exciting as a bachelor bacchanalia in Europe, but we'll get more than a few days hazy memory.
Posted by DakIsNoLB
Member since Sep 2015
1234 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 11:40 am to
quote:

Re: credit card debt. How is this calculated? Even if no one carried a balance I think this number would’ve gone up just due to inflation. My CC debt is higher this year than it was last year and I pay the balance in full monthly. My balance has just gone up because the things I buy with it have gone up.


I would hope they would only count balances carried over month-to-month as actual credit card debt. If it is paid off each month, then it like you paid for when you bought it.
Posted by Burt Orangello
DFW
Member since Sep 2023
638 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 11:54 am to
As discussed in every other thread with this theme…

Demand pull (“dollars are losing value, so I’ll go ahead and buy future stuff now”)

+

Buying the same stuff and using debt to cover the difference in increased prices (inflation)

=

The notion that “strong consumer spending means the economy is still strong” … which is absurd and akin to giving a dying person a shot of adrenaline and saying “this person is healthy; just look at that heart go!”

The consumer debt runs out and demand pull will taper off. Normal demand will drop. All of these combined will cause a pretty sudden stop.

This post was edited on 10/2/23 at 11:56 am
Posted by TheFonz
Somewhere in Louisiana
Member since Jul 2016
23257 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 11:56 am to
quote:

Americans Are Still Spending Like There’s No Tomorrow


Well, why not? According to the government and the media, we'll all be dead from climate change within ten years. That's if the Russians and/or Donald Trump doesn't kill us all first.
Posted by jizzle6609
Houston
Member since Jul 2009
20012 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

My best friend lives like this. Good job, good salary. But she spends her money living life and traveling. It helps they fly fee bc of her fiancées hub, and one day they will each inherit their parents’ homes. She says why pour it all into savings when we don’t know the future, and is fine with whatever her company places into her 401k. Maybe she’s the smart one.


The only answer is how a person values security.

Also, you dont know the future of the parents. What if one gets sick and has serious medical issue for multiple years, those houses could go away unless they have steady income coming in monthly.

Two sides.
Posted by Joshjrn
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
32869 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

kingbob


I don’t necessarily agree with every detail of your post, but I agree with the broad strokes. And regardless, kudos for drafting it
Posted by CocodrieBaw
Member since Sep 2023
211 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 12:08 pm to
The irony of traveling afar using fossil fuels and planes and boats to see places that “won’t exist” anymore because of fossil fuels is fricking hilarious.

Another bucket of excuses that many people on this board will have to pay the tab for when shite hits the fan.
Posted by Solo Cam
Member since Sep 2015
35035 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 12:12 pm to
Save a little bit but slot of these folks are in their late 30's.

Live your life before it's over.


Concerts snd bags are fricking retarded but trips make sense to me
This post was edited on 10/2/23 at 12:14 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70420 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 12:26 pm to
Let me explain why people spend money on concerts. Concerts (much like live in-person sports) are one of the few experiences one can spend money on that can help grant a sense of community and foster real in-person interactions and relationships. While concerts like T-Swift have also become a flex for social media, the main purpose is the appeal of being surrounded by people who all love the same thing and are experiencing the same thing at the same time. With the death of the monoculture, people feel isolated as everyone is in their own media bubble consuming their own curated algorithm of content independent from the people around them. They watch tv shows on their schedule, listen to music from literally any era or genre at once, and stream the movies that hit their recommended feed.

Concerts and live sports are temporal and specific to a location. You commune with the fans around you and have the ability to bond with them over a shared passion. This is the community that many are lacking without strong bonds to family, schools, churches, civic organizations, or hobby clubs in their life.

I have met so many friends through attending concerts. As a result, concert tickets (and the expense of gas and parking) make up a significant part of my entertainment budget. I get to feel a part of something bigger than myself and enjoy the company of strangers whom I can turn into lifelong friends. Many of my best memories of my adulthood so far (early 30’s) were made at concerts with people I loved or friends I was meeting for the first time. Granted, I’m a weird autistic musician type, so it would make sense that concerts would be my happy place.
Posted by Joshjrn
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
32869 posts
Posted on 10/2/23 at 12:30 pm to
On top of that, previous generations frequently cite to certain bands and particular concerts/music festivals as apex cultural experiences, yet want to shite on people for paying what has, unfortunately, become the price of admission for those exact same experiences.

I practically never go to concerts and even I see the hypocritical bullshite in that.
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