re: America needs carpenters and plumbers. Gen Z doesn't seem interested

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The stories about people in the trades on here are the exception and not the norm.

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My favorite thing is how people that are actually in the trades will be the first to tell you that people in their field don’t want to work either.

Every generation is full of people who don’t want to work.

my favorite thing about these threads is that its just full of a bunch of dudes that went college and are sitting in offices saying things like "these pussy kids just don't want to work hard"

we received over 200 applicants from local trade schools for our summer intern positions FWIW

I know people in the trades that have done very well financially and I believe it is still possible today. One of the great benefits is much of the work simply can't be offshored.

I think the primary benefit of university is learning to think in a structured and organized manner and understanding how to find and critically analyze information. Useful in anything you do. It does require actually working and studying while at a college or university instead of non-stop partying. Today, the active indoctrination of students in ideology is a major negative which if absorbed will have a negative impact in living a productive and happy life.

I think a potential student better be very serious about their education and well grounded before I would recommend higher education.

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During those decades we saw real wages rise very little if at all.

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He's one of those who believe "all immigrants are welcome" and also believes that wages have been stagnant on the lower ends since the 70s.

But he cannot see the connection between importing millions of illegal workers and stagnant wages.

Wages at the lower end rise when there is a shortage of workers and employers have to compete. There is no shortage of workers in manual labor positions as long as you have cheap, migrant labor.

Skilled labor, union labor are where shortages will occur

Well. The good news is that we as humans will soon stop shitting or needing light in our homes

Salaries ain't kept up and do not reflect the shortage of skilled trades and they haven't since the late 70's. I have been in and around the trades for the entirety of my life and the wages and benefits earned by a journeyman inside wireman or plumber are not sufficient to warrant learning the trade given that by the time most people are 50 years old they no longer have the physical ability to do the work and contractors are not interested in hiring and retaining them. When I was a kid my Dad, an IBEW electrician in Atlanta, earned way more money than anyone we knew and had better benefits. Given the seasonal nature of the work...it slows down in the winter everywhere every year, tradesmen are accustomed to working 9-10 months a year for the average of their 47 year careers. We lost double time, for the most part, years ago, working conditions are worse than they have ever been with technology reducing the amount of actual skill needed to almost pure physical effort...and wages and benefits have shrunk over the past 50 years instead of stagnating like most careers. If you're lucky and have the mental acumen to transition into related fields it is possible to start in a trade and as you age get into management or sells or something related and work until retirement but very few people are capable of physically doing the work past the age of 50. I have earned a damned good living in the trades and I am associated with the trades as we speak...it is a young man's job still.

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I don't think this is so true.

I applied for the Electrical JATC twice before going back to school to become an accountant.

Once was in Shreveport. I did well on my exam. I didn't do so well in the interview, but it wasn't awful. I was waitlisted. This was 2016.

We moved to Boise, I applied for an apprenticeship up there. Did even better on my exam, did really well in the interview this time. The Training Coordinator pulled me aside after the interview and told me that I was a great candidate, but they had a lot of people who were already scheduled to be indentured. He told me to apply around at union shops as a helper until they were able to indenture some more. I did just that, knocked on doors, wrote emails, the works. I heard nothing for 6 months, I just figured I'd been waitlisted again. I got a call 6 months later from one of the shops offering me a job for $10/hour and that it would look good when they indentured next time. By that time I had a job and health insurance for myself and my wife and decided frick it, I just won't be an electrician. Worked that job for another year until I went back to school.

My point is, and I fully understand this is anecdotal, but for a lot of these unions you're fighting time, hoops, and nepotism. And these articles don't make it clear that you're talking about a half year process even if you start at the right time. And I know college is a 4 year process, but if you get waitlisted, and 6 months turns into 12-18, you start to wonder what the value is, particularly if you need work and insurance right then and there.

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Your story is anecdotal but it is typical. Again, I am a fifth generation IBEW member. I went through the apprenticeship program while simultaneously going to college and earning an EE degree. When I applied there were 3500 applicants for 60 slots and the wages for first year apprentices was about 80% of what flipping burgers was. About 20% of the people accepted the year I was accepted dropped out in the first 90 days because the conditions were so bad and wages were deplorable. It has not changed. It is even worse in the open shop world. The industry has been aware of the issue for at least 50 years...the Business Round Table was all over it in the late 70's and still are....yet wages and benefits have shrunk and working conditions have gotten worse.

Five years ago I worked 300+ union tradesmen (electricians, pipefitters, tin knockers, laborers a few iron workers and carpenters). This was in one of the best labor markets in one of the strongest union areas there is in the United States. If the people working for me were not working 60 hours a week, at a minimum, they had to drag up and go where they could...to make ends meet. The conditions on this job were as good as they could possibly be...safety was off the chain...of the 300+ that made the rounds during that 2 year period exactly 20 were under 35 years of age...so few it was notable. The majority were in their late 50s and were not physically able to work on a normal job because the trade had worn them out....yet they still had 10 years or so before they could retire. I know of 2 jobs within 30 minutes of where I am right now with over 1000 tradesmen, all union, employed as we speak. If you drive by the parking lot it looks like a salvage yard and if you watch them limp in and out of the gate of an evening it looks like something from the 1930s. I know what they make...it is RIDICULOUSLY low...and I know what is expected of them...it is damn near impossible beyond 55 years of age yet they must work until 65.

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You dont NEED to join a union to do these jobs.

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You do not need to if you want to earn about 75% on average and have no benefits to speak of. The open or merit shop world is a fricking nightmare for all but a very select few.

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The open or merit shop world is a fricking nightmare for all but a very select few.

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The select few do much better because Unions are stifling to anyone with ambition due to wage scales and seniority.

Its great job protection for the average guy who really doesn't want to have to prove his worth.