re: Adderall as a performance-enhancing drug

This thread

Deer antler spray

I mean I take it. In grammar school, the teachers used to put me in the back row and let me walk around class. My parents tried tonput me on it for behavioral issues but I just threw it away everyday

Still, you're being tested on what you know for the CPA to be certified for that profession. Your employeer doesn't care how you know it, just that you know it

Could help solve the obesity problem too

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how significant is Adderall in regards to academic fraud/cheating?

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One of the more liberal interpretations of the DSM (both IV and V) criteria I've heard basically implies that everyone will present with symptoms of ADHD if pushed hard enough. For some, the challenge is in 2nd grade level work. For others, graduate programs as you described. While I don't necessarily agree with the prescription of stimulants to just anyone for the sake of "school/work is too hard," I've written it for plenty of children and adults (though I haven't started any college kids on it yet, coincidentally) who would otherwise not be able to function at any real great level. It's definitely a real disease, in some people it doesn't manifest itself until workloads become high, and, equally importantly, some parents just refuse to medicate their kids, who wind up skating by for the most part. When it comes to people who struggle with actually performing all their activities of daily life (including work) and struggling to be competent without help, I've got no problem writing it- they're actually, on average, bigger risk takers who get themselves into trouble of all kinds when they're unmedicated. In other words, if I've got someone who's not going to take it 7 days a week through the weekends and holidays, then they don't really need it.

That said- I believe it really is of benefit for the generally low-achieving. When it comes to those who are higher achieving, it is often misused and abused. In my medical school class, probably on the order of half or more had it or took it. On one hand, there's relatively little harm associated with it being taken as prescribed over 2-4 years. Those that went through the proper channels to obtain it shouldn't be disciplined. I do hold a bit of content for those who took it. It's definitely the easy way out. But drug testing would definitely have been fair for us- we sign contracts stating that random drug tests are OK and that violation of the drug policy is grounds for dismissal from school. If undergraduate students agree to the same thing, by all means- they should be held accountable. But if they don't, I'd imagine it's a headache for the administration to choose who to test, when, and whether the action and result are ruled worthy of dismissal or not. It sounds like at least another full-time position and a lot more in the cost of the testing for something that's probably not worth kicking most students off campus. Of course, that said, I would like if a student openly admits to taking a controlled substance that they are not prescribed that there were channels to refer them to- maybe a single one-time counseling channel explaining the inherent danger of going about things the wrong way when they're readily available for those who need them the right way. To suspend or expel someone from school could likely be justified by their committing a crime, but I would much rather see them get a lecture on why what they did was wrong, a second chance, and a list of people who treat the condition they feel they have. I totally disagree with those students' actions, and I often joked that my classmates' GPA should carry an asterisk, but dismissal from a university for random, one-time screening is too far.

ChRXis made mention of Modafinil- ill quickly toss out that for uninsured night-shift worker, a short-acting stimulant can be had for $30/mo easily at a dose that works for a whole month's supply. I recently had a long stretch of nights and looked up what getting through 2 weeks of nights on Modafinil would cost out of curiosity (I took no medication, for the record. I did have coffee on 3 or so of the nights, which, as an aside, cannot be a used by DSM V standards, which I thought was somewhat comical). It would have been over $400. For just the two weeks. Thus you see the shift to second-line therapy pretty quickly. Lots of night shift workers are less than financially sound. Adding a car payment to the monthly budget just to stay awake is less than ideal for those without prescription drug coverage.


ETA- GoodRx price checked myself. 30x Modafinil 100mg is about $135 with an Albertson's coupon. 200mg is $175. At most other places, it's in the $250-400 range. Adderall 10 and 20mg is only ~$45 for 60 pills. For someone who is responsible enough to cut a pill in half and needs 10mg, they can get away with paying $20/mo

So, according to that list if you take Sudafed on your own you're in violation?

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So, according to that list if you take Sudafed on your own you're in violation?

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Correct

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I was pretty shocked when somebody on here a year or two ago was freaked out about not being able to compete with others in med school without it

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I held some spite for those who used it when I was in that position. But I didn't post through most of the time I was in my first 2 years. And when I did post or talk about it, I usually did so in a joking manner- kidding that it was akin to all of Barry Bonds' stats, as above. And then during 3rd and 4th years, I didn't care who took it because it didn't make them any better in the day to day clinical activities.

Well,that's fricked up.I understand the others but otc cold medicines.

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It's funny. I get criticized for drinking/smoking by people who use addy to study/work and tell me "it's different." If you need a drug to function you probably aren't in the right profession.

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there's a medical ethicist out there that has gone on some tirades about this type of double standard, that you mention. I wish I could remember his name. He goes off on standards, semantics etc.

but yes, go to a health professions college and they'll go double standard on you in a milli second.