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Message
re: A hundred school shootings a year wouldn't change my mind
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:29 pm to Bronc
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:29 pm to Bronc
quote:
Unfortunately its sort of where we are as a society and this is where I put on my Boomer cap and shake my fist at social media, internet "news," and modern corporate news.
There is a tendency to mentally frame everything these days in a zero sum, us vs them fashion and to extrapolate and assume the loudest and most extreme voices on either side represent not only the prevailing opinion of the other side, but are somehow the secret power brokers of that party/group.
When in reality the 20,000 post count trans activist on Twitter holds literally 0 real world power in any political institution of power. So them screaming about ban all guns is an exercise in futility engaging, and fallacious reasoning to ascribe any sort of powerful agency within nay real corridor of political power, cause they have almost none.
The only real proposals for any sort of real reform are on the margins of the current status quo: expanded background checks, licensing, increased restrictions on certain weaponry, expanded enforcement etc.
There is literally no point in even having the discussion about a nationwide gun ban as it is literally not in the cards
We can sit and throw around definitions all we want but if you look at the rest of the developed world compared to us
We overwhelmingly have the most lax gun laws by far
We also overwhelmingly have these type of incidents occur more than any other.
We can deny it all we want but there is a correlation there and something needs to be done. Look at other countries similar to us and how they are handling their gun laws. It doesn't have to be an outright ban and I'm not even saying my idea are the correct one. But just holding form is going to continue getting us these results over and over again.
2
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:31 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
ike DAs not prosecuting crimes, letting violent criminals out of jail, refusing to invest in police, whatever.
On the other page I specifically listed putting teeth back into the ATF, modernizing their infrastructure as a means to better aid law enforcement, and add new funding for gun buyback programs and increase enforcement targeted at disrupting the vast supply chain and supply pool of illegal guns that are used, mostly, in those everyday crimes you focused in on.
....You said you would not support it
Are you just arguing to argue with various people? If so, I get it, some people use these boards as an outlet just to kick the shite around, or are you implying the only things your willing to support are more punitive criminal justice system measures in the name of deterrence which has not shown to be all that effective at notably curtailing criminality? In that case, why?
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:32 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
We can deny it all we want but there is a correlation there and something needs to be done. Look at other countries similar to us and how they are handling their gun laws. It doesn't have to be an outright ban and I'm not even saying my idea are the correct one. But just holding form is going to continue getting us these results over and over again.
I agree
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:34 pm to mindbreaker
One thing I’ve noticed is that these cycles are ALWAYS the same
1. School shooting
2. Media extravaganza (everyone pick a side)
3. Thoughts and prayers
4. Social media gun control debates
5. Nobody does or tries anything different
6. Back to ‘normal’
7. Restart at #1
I’m not advocating for anything. I don’t have the answers. I don’t want it to be harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. More laws and restrictions won’t stop the criminals from getting them… but SOMETHING needs to be done.
It’s insane that we have these situations over and over again yet nothing seems to change. Just a bunch of sword rattling from all sides of the spectrum
1. School shooting
2. Media extravaganza (everyone pick a side)
3. Thoughts and prayers
4. Social media gun control debates
5. Nobody does or tries anything different
6. Back to ‘normal’
7. Restart at #1
I’m not advocating for anything. I don’t have the answers. I don’t want it to be harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. More laws and restrictions won’t stop the criminals from getting them… but SOMETHING needs to be done.
It’s insane that we have these situations over and over again yet nothing seems to change. Just a bunch of sword rattling from all sides of the spectrum
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:38 pm to BugAC
quote:I know that current gun laws don’t work where they are implemented. That’s why there needs to be a smarter solution. I have no idea what that is and it’s not my job to come up with it. My only concern is will I still be able to protect myself and my family.
You yourself, are proving that gun laws don't work because criminals will break the law to commit crime.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:38 pm to Vamos Brandonos
Lmao pray tell how you gonna fight the government with your little semi automatic and limited bullets that you won't be able to restock if war starts.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:38 pm to Clames
I know you won’t find it hypocritical at all they you seem to only want to believe the research that supports you own conclusions. l which happens to be almost all done by Kleck through limited surveys he extrapolates over the entire population.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:39 pm to Vlatket
quote:
Lmao pray tell how you gonna fight the government with your little semi automatic and limited bullets that you won't be able to restock if war starts.
*laughs in Afghanistan*
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:41 pm to Bronc
quote:
Are you just arguing to argue with various people? If so, I get it, some people use these boards as an outlet just to kick the shite around, or are you implying the only things your willing to support are more punitive criminal justice system measures in the name of deterrence which has not shown to be all that effective at notably curtailing criminality? In that case, why?
I'm not trying to be rude, but using the ATF as a core piece of the solution represents a disconnect from the gun owning public and doesn't help your case at all. If that includes completely overhauling the ATF to make it into an entity devoted to enforcing existing law rather than an advocacy group working against gun owners - say so and incorporate that into your proposal.
But I think it's a really tough case to make considering the guy proposed to lead the ATF was working with a radical gun control advocacy group prior to his nomination, no ? And considering the current nominee is an anti-gun Democrat operative endorsed by America's most extreme anti-gun group?
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:42 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
Playing the semantics game here I see you know exactly what the hell I was referring to but you are more concerned with being correct than having and honest discussion.
Wrong, if you can't accept that semi-automatic rifles are widely used in hunting then you have no interest in an honest discussion. Quit projecting.
quote:
Oh please elaborate on what these are for the rest of us ignorant people?
Numerous competitive shooting events where an AR-type rifle is required. CMP Camp Perry Open is another big one. Since AR-type rifles can be chambered in more than 200 cartridges from pistol to magnum rifle they can be adapted to hunting any game animal in North America and due to their modular nature a hunter can bring several assembled upper receivers and change them out on the lower within seconds to adapt to whatever situation or hunt. Defensive use is self explanatory, rifles are easier to handle, pack more punch, more ammo, and in the typical .223 Rem/5.56 NATO chambering they are actually less likely to over penetrate residential structures.
quote:
ay you found the one in the last 20 years that goes against my argument while ignoring the rest. Good job
I just gave one quick example that is obvious to those of us that know this topic. Not my fault you're the dunce here.
quote:
I guess your definition of the way i want it or nothing is more your speed then
No, you simply don't know what the word means. You think you are being magnanimous in telling gun-owners you are will to accept a lesser restriction on their rights and that is your "compromise". That is not compromise since you are literally offering nothing in return.
quote:
Active shooter =/= mass shootings you are grasping at straws here but by all means continue
No, active shooting incidents and mass shootings are in the same data package the FBI publishes on its public website. Every mass shooting is considered an active shooter incident to the FBI, not every active shooter incident is a mass shooting. Important distinction but you'd actually need to study this stuff to understand.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:43 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
A hundred school shootings a year wouldn't change my mind
Same here. It should still be illegal.
Laws don't matter to homicidal people.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:47 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
I know you won’t find it hypocritical at all they you seem to only want to believe the research that supports you own conclusions. l which happens to be almost all done by Kleck through limited surveys he extrapolates over the entire population.
No, but when looked at as a whole and when the studies of sufficient quality are retained (which is what the CDC did and it excluded a lot of the pro-gun-control "research" due to quality issues) the support for more restrictive gun-control laws simply isn't there. Kleck is very much a liberal and was very pro-gun-control until he started looking at and conducting his own research. That's why he was named as one of the active contributors to that study and not Cook, he's produces quality objective research and is noted for that.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:47 pm to Centinel
Well we swept through Afghanistan in a month. Set up camp for 20 years, and then we pulled out for political reasons.
Do you think the US Government will pull out of then US for political reasons?
Do you think you’ll have some sort of tactical advantage in the US that’s the US military doesn’t?
The Taliban received weopons from outside the country. Who is supplying you in this situation?
Do you think the US Government will pull out of then US for political reasons?
Do you think you’ll have some sort of tactical advantage in the US that’s the US military doesn’t?
The Taliban received weopons from outside the country. Who is supplying you in this situation?
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:49 pm to Vamos Brandonos
quote:
We need unrestricted access to guns to protect ourselves from the government.
Depends on we. Use a logical age for gun ownership responsibility. All schools should have limited/restricted access points. And when one enters there needs to be security watching very closely. No access after school starts unless one enters past security and then to the administrators office. Sign in. Security provided by the state and not the school district. Have a school district police force.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:50 pm to SammyTiger
I suspect his point is that for 20 years the insurgency survived and frustrated a powerful adversary
Might I also suggest that 2 summers ago less than 1% of the country was able to bring cities to a halt and paralyze law enforcement with bricks, fireworks, and other crude weapons.
Might I also suggest that 2 summers ago less than 1% of the country was able to bring cities to a halt and paralyze law enforcement with bricks, fireworks, and other crude weapons.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:51 pm to TheRouxGuru
quote:
More laws and restrictions won’t stop the criminals from getting them… but SOMETHING needs to be done.
Why? You just said you can't name what would stop this. The truth is, no one can, because this is not a problem the government can solve. This is a morality and mental health issue. Government can't "do something" if they don't have the capacity to fix it.
quote:
It’s insane that we have these situations over and over again yet nothing seems to change. Just a bunch of sword rattling from all sides of the spectrum
Do what? What do you want done? You can't just say, "we just need to do something" and your only response be something nebulus like "common sense gun laws" or "government needs to act". That kind of non-speak is why nothing gets done. It's political words for political parties to beat each other over the head with.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:51 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Might I also suggest that 2 summers ago less than 1% of the country was able to bring cities to a halt and paralyze law enforcement with bricks, fireworks, and other crude weapons.
Yeah but that was law enforcement.
If they say picked up rifles and tried to overthrow the government I think The military would have just wasted them.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:53 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Depends on we. Use a logical age for gun ownership responsibility. All schools should have limited/restricted access points. And when one enters there needs to be security watching very closely. No access after school starts unless one enters past security and then to the administrators office. Sign in. Security provided by the state and not the school district. Have a school district police force.
This is how my kids school operates. It is a private school.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:55 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
If they say picked up rifles and tried to overthrow the government I think The military would have just wasted them.
Well, national guard was present and did not, in fact, waste them.
Should citizens with ARs and handguns be a match for militarized law enforcement or military? No, not really.
Do many modern examples show that armed citizenry/insurgency can greatly frustrate military/police? Yes.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 12:57 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
I think The military would have just wasted them.
You can think that all you want, but having been in for over 20 years you should know that the vast majority of those that actually pull triggers in the military are very much anti-gun control and also want no part in getting into a hot fight on American soil against a populace that is better armed than they are. My personal AR's are better made, more accurate, and more durable than any issued M4A1. That full-auto on the selector really doesn't mean that much.
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