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737 Max grounding will extend into 2020 as more problems uncovered
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:09 am
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:09 am
LINK
quote:
The process of developing and certifying revised software and pilot-training changes has been repeatedly delayed, with airlines scrambling to cope with slips month after month. Boeing executives, FAA engineers and international aviation regulators have steadily expanded their safety analyses to cover a growing list of issues spanning everything from emergency recovery procedures to potentially suspect electronic components. Some of those assessments are further complicated because they cover earlier 737 models
quote:
Already, carriers have given up on flying their MAX planes until late this year. American Airlines Group Inc. said Sunday that it would keep the plane off its schedules through Nov. 2, two months beyond its previous target of an early September return. It’s the fifth time American has pushed off MAX flying since it first had to call off flights when regulators grounded the plane in March. United Airlines Holdings Inc. announced a similar move on Friday, but FAA officials and others tracking the issue said there’s no assurance the November date will hold
9
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:16 am to RedRifle
Did the Boeing check to the FAA bounce?
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:17 am to RedRifle
They will never top the 747
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:18 am to RedRifle
Just crazy they're finding all these problems just by doing the basic digging they should've done to approve its flight in the first place.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:19 am to sand mountainDvalues
They already have with the 777 and 787.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:22 am to redstick13
The 747 was revolutionary to air travel. The 777 and 787 are just good airplanes.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:24 am to RedRifle
overheard some 737 guys at work yesterday, who work in the training department, saying that whatever they've recently discovered in trying to fix this is much worse than they anticipated, a very serious problem it seems, didn't have time to ask for any details
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:31 am to 777Tiger
They pushed the airframe too far by increasing the length and engine size. It was never intended to be a 757 replacement, but now it has to be.
To be what they wanted it to be, the 737 needed an entirely new underbelly and landing gear. Instead of lifting it, they mounted the engines in front of the wing and gave the plane a natural nose-up tendency. They countered that with a flawed “auto stall” system that confuses inexperienced pilots and apparently doesn’t work very well.
To be what they wanted it to be, the 737 needed an entirely new underbelly and landing gear. Instead of lifting it, they mounted the engines in front of the wing and gave the plane a natural nose-up tendency. They countered that with a flawed “auto stall” system that confuses inexperienced pilots and apparently doesn’t work very well.
This post was edited on 7/14/19 at 9:32 am
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:37 am to PipelineBaw
This finding bugs and such with a deep dive is not surprising. It would be the same for any company going before a FAA or CAA that has been embarrassed by letting you slide before. The FAA is facing a credibility crisis because they let Boeing slide for a few major things. Now they’re going back and making a point to Boeing and everyone else that “we’re not a rubber stamp, damnit”.
Most of this was probably not big enough for the FAA to care before; manuals and paperwork for aircraft approval can go into the 1000s of pages easily, and going over each document for corrections is a complete nutroll.
Glad I’m not working in the Boeing S&Q department
Most of this was probably not big enough for the FAA to care before; manuals and paperwork for aircraft approval can go into the 1000s of pages easily, and going over each document for corrections is a complete nutroll.
Glad I’m not working in the Boeing S&Q department
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:38 am to goofball
Fly by wire is fricked from the get go.
I used to avoid Airbus because of it.
I want hydrolics, cables and an experienced pilot crew.
Yes I long for the good-old-days of flying.
I used to avoid Airbus because of it.
I want hydrolics, cables and an experienced pilot crew.
Yes I long for the good-old-days of flying.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:38 am to RedRifle
This is like an overboard IRS-type audit on the 737. Boeing screwed themselves royally by pushing the efficiency side of business (which is important and necessary for any successful business) too far in its development of that plane.
Now that the government regulators are heavily involved they are going by find EVERY little potential problem they can to cover their own asses.
Now that the government regulators are heavily involved they are going by find EVERY little potential problem they can to cover their own asses.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:38 am to goofball
quote:
To be what they wanted it to be, the 737 needed an entirely new underbelly and landing gear. Instead of lifting it, they mounted the engines in front of the wing and gave the plane a natural nose-up tendency. They
I honestly don't think that's as big of a factor as it's getting credit for
quote:
a flawed “auto stall” system that confuses inexperienced pilots
not sure about that one either, I believe that's probably where the problem lies, in the computer software, as far as confusing inexperienced pilots, just about anything does when the shite starts to hit the fan
just my speculation but I think Boeing succumbed to the pressure of Airbus pretty much giving away the A320 family of narrow bodies and didn't want to invest the time and expense to develop a replacement for the 757, which is vastly superior to the Airbus, again, just speculation on my part
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:39 am to 777Tiger
Are they producing them now or did they stop until all this gets sorted out?
I could look it up but you are handy.
I could look it up but you are handy.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:41 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Fly by wire is fricked from the get go.
no it isn't
quote:
I want hydrolics, cables
well, about that
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:42 am to Randman
quote:
Now that the government regulators are heavily involved they are going by find EVERY little potential problem they can to cover their own asses.
I bet that Boeing Is more afraid of the potential litigation then they are of measly government fine.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:45 am to RedRifle
Bite the bullet and build a new fricking plane. Boing was scared shitless by the Airbus. Got lazy. Moded an existing model. And it’s a PoS by all accounts.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:45 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Yes I long for the good-old-days of flying.
Ah yes, the good old days when planes crashed at a higher rate.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:46 am to 777Tiger
quote:
overheard some 737 guys at work yesterday
quote:
didn't have time to ask for any details
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:49 am to Athos
quote:
Boing was scared shitless by the Airbus
don't think scared is the right word, succumbing to market pressure maybe, Airbus flooding the market with KIA Optimas and Boeing continuing to try and compete with a Rolls or Bentley
quote:
Moded an existing model.
quote:
it’s a PoS
highest produced airliner in history, with one of the best overall safety records
Posted on 7/14/19 at 9:54 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:um... every Boeing is fly by wire EXCEPT the 737
Fly by wire is fricked from the get go. I used to avoid Airbus because of it. I want hydrolics, cables and an experienced pilot crew. Yes I long for the good-old-days of flying.
This post was edited on 7/14/19 at 9:54 am
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