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re: $15 minimum wage directly contributing to fast-food industry's automation push

Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:12 pm to
Posted by windshieldman
Member since Nov 2012
12818 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:12 pm to
As a white Biden voted I just want to see small businesses go down and big corporations get bigger. If Covid didn't kill them off, hopefully $15 minimum wage might finish them. Plus I can cut my hours in half and do more gaming.
This post was edited on 6/8/21 at 2:13 pm
Posted by WaWaWeeWa
Member since Oct 2015
15714 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:14 pm to
People are about to get a real life explanation of what Thomas Sowell said 30 years ago…

“The real minimum wage is always zero”

Because if you raise the minimum wage too much you just won’t have a job
Posted by BulldogNation
Alabama
Member since Nov 2014
401 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:26 pm to
It all a slippery slope. You want BIG govt, its the same slope. Just how far do you want to slide down it.

There is no magic cure to fix the wage gap. If 15 is the "magic number" for a liveable wage, I would be all for it. It would cut out down welfare, govt housing, etc. But it would not, people would still complain cause then they would have to pay for other stuff. ETC
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
71357 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

People are about to get a real life explanation of what Thomas Sowell said 30 years ago…

“The real minimum wage is always zero”

Because if you raise the minimum wage too much you just won’t have a job
Yep.

The minimum wage decimated black teenage employment
quote:


In country after country around the world, those whose employment prospects are reduced most by minimum wage laws are those who are younger, less experienced or less skilled…..

Another group disproportionately affected by minimum wage laws are members of unpopular racial or ethnic minority groups. Indeed, minimum wage laws were once advocated explicitly because of the likelihood that such laws would reduce or eliminate the competition of particular minorities, whether they were Japanese in Canada during the 1920s or blacks in the United States and South Africa during the same era. Such expressions of overt racial discrimination were both legal and socially accepted in all three countries at that time.

Again, it is necessary to note how price is a factor even in racial discrimination. That is, surplus labor resulting from minimum wage laws makes it cheaper to discriminate against minority workers than it would be in a free market, where there is no chronic excess supply of labor. Passing up qualified minority workers in a free market means having to hire more other workers to take the jobs they were denied, and that in turn usually means either having to raise the pay to attract the additional workers or lower the job qualifications at the existing pay level – both of which amount to the same thing economically, higher labor costs for getting a given amount of work done.

The history of black workers in the United States illustrates the point. From the late nineteenth-century on through the middle of the twentieth century, the labor force participation rate of American blacks was slightly higher than that of American whites. In other words, blacks were just as employable as the wages they received as whites were at their very different wages. The minimum wage law changed that. Before federal minimum wage laws were instituted in the 1930s, the black unemployment rate was slightly lower than the white unemployment rate in 1930. But then followed the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931, the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA) of 1933 and the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) of 1938 – all of which imposed government-mandated minimum wages, either on a particular sector or more broadly.

The National Labor Relations Act of 1935, which promoted unionization, also tended to price black workers out of jobs, in addition to union rules that kept blacks from jobs by barring them from union membership. The NIRA raised wages in the Southern textile industry by 70 percent in just five months and its impact nationwide was estimated to have cost blacks half a million jobs. While this Act was later declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, the FLSA was upheld by the High Court and became the major force establishing a national minimum wage.

……

By 1954, black unemployment rates were double those of whites and have continued to be at that level or higher. Those particularly hard hit by the resulting unemployment have been black teenage males.

………….

Unemployment among 16 and 17-year-old black males was no higher than among white males of the same age in 1948. It was only after a series of minimum wage escalations began that black male teenage unemployment rates not only skyrocketed but became more than double the unemployment rates among white male teenagers.


Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
71357 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

Yeah, I'm not so sure this is true at all.
If I wanted people to be poor, I wouldn't be a staunch capitalist, which, as even your idol Obama has stated, is the single greatest tool to eradicate poverty the world has ever seen.

In fact, free markets have basically eradicated actual subsistence poverty, where you live meal by meal.

the poor in north america and europe are only poor relative to national data.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
35185 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

He's not going to give back his child tax credit though
I haven't received one yet (first child born this year), but I would gladly give it away if it meant we no longer subsidized people having children that they can't afford.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
71357 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

I haven't received one yet (first child born this year), but I would gladly give it away if it meant we no longer subsidized people having children that they can't afford.
That is where the true issue lies.

Someone working full time on the minimum wage is technically earning above the poverty line, AS LONG AS they don't have a kid to feed.

Why should someone be paid more because they have a child?
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
25983 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

What about the small businesses that can't afford to automate?

It doesn't seem like a $50,000 machine would be that much of a cost savings anyway.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

you have been refusing to engage in any debate with anyone,


He can't. He's an intellectual midget.

He's also pushing for a raise via min wage. In every one of these threads. No wonder his father still supports him.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:00 pm to
quote:

It doesn't seem like a $50,000 machine would be that much of a cost savings anyway.


Sure it would. Replace 2 workers and kick arse.

This machine should produce for years too.

Posted by goofball
Member since Mar 2015
17163 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

Sure it would. Replace 2 workers and kick arse.



McDonalds probably has 3-4 overlapping shifts covering the register all day between 5 AM and midnight. I imagine they have at least 3 for the rest of their positions from day to day. And that's not the 24 hour stores.

So any single automation tool replacing just two workers is probably an under estimate.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:05 pm to
The one local McDonalds cut their counter space to roughly 25% of what it was and installed kiosks.

Pay there is $13-$18 an hour.
Posted by Athos
Member since Sep 2016
11878 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:06 pm to
This board loves sucking the corporate dick, even for places as trashy as McDonald’s and the pricks who basically stole the original idea.
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:09 pm to
I was in a McDonald's 5 or 6 years ago that had kiosks for ordering. Nobody was using them. I went back in that McDonald's a couple of years ago and they had removed them.

Not sure how long they had been in place, and it's likely it will take some time for consumers to adapt to using them. The Shake Shack here does all their order taking via kiosks, unless you want to pay cash. That may have been a Covid thing though.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

This board loves sucking the corporate dick


Advocating for no min wage is "sucking corporate dick?" you fricking commies are such drama queens.

I'm advocating that people improve their lot in life. You want them to continue to mire in low paying jobs.
This post was edited on 6/8/21 at 3:16 pm
Posted by Circle G
Member since Dec 2020
419 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:19 pm to
They were going this route regardless. The left is just the scapegoat.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

The left is just the scapegoat.


I think it's fair to blast those who propose shitty economic policy that actually hurts the poor as the problem.

They didn't start it, but they are absolutely speeding it up.
Posted by goofball
Member since Mar 2015
17163 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

This board loves sucking the corporate dick


Actually I think there's more outrage at what a massive hike in minimum wage will do to the companies that are too small to invest in expensive automation tools.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
35185 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

The Shake Shack here does all their order taking via kiosks, unless you want to pay cash. That may have been a Covid thing though.
I've been to one like this in NYC (pretty sure it was NYC, maybe DC). I prefer it

I'm conflicted on the minimum wage topic. I don't really think it's a good idea to raise the federal minimum wage, but at the same time, tax payers are on the hook for subsidizing corporations who don't pay employees enough for them to survive on their own (via entitlement programs).

What's the answer? I don't know.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 6/8/21 at 3:31 pm to
quote:


Actually I think there's more outrage at what a massive hike in minimum wage will do to the companies that are too small to invest in expensive automation tools.


Leftists don't understand econ. When labor becomes too expensive, they'll purchase less labor. A massive min wage hike will result in unemployed poor people
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