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Started By
Message
re: 10 People Killed in Plane Crash at Addison Airport (Dallas suburb) Update on Page 3
Posted on 7/1/19 at 6:38 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
Posted on 7/1/19 at 6:38 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:Yes
Is the King Air that crashed the same thing as a C-12?
1
Posted on 7/1/19 at 7:25 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Yes
Thought so. We had a few of those roll through our squadron spaces on occasion for minor maintenance.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 7:49 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
I am an expert and I’m here to tell you that King Airs don’t break.
quote:
Is the King Air that crashed the same thing as a C-12?
if you put a former jarhead in the cockpit it changes the equation a bit
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:31 am to blueridgeTiger
TV news this morning said plane had taken off; gotten to about 500 feet and rolled.
NTSB spokesperson did not mention that.
NTSB spokesperson did not mention that.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:34 am to blueridgeTiger
quote:
TV news this morning said plane had taken off; gotten to about 500 feet and rolled.
based on this, and it's waaaay too early to make guesses, and eyewitness testimony is usually the most unreliable data, engine fail, inappropriate control input, and maybe heavy and possibly out of cg
ETA: '23 would be the man to have insight on this
This post was edited on 7/1/19 at 9:36 am
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:37 am to 777Tiger
With 8 passengers and 2 pilots and presumably some luggage a King Air 350 would be at Max gross. Engine failures on PT-6’s are soooo fricking rare though. I’ve heard of planes coming out of maintenance after having some rigging done and the rudder trim being set to full deflection. Also the friction locks on the throttles are notoriously weak on king airs making it easy to have a roll back on the engine.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:40 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I guess I shouldn’t say the NEVER break but almost every emergency procedure in the King Air is an extremely benign event with the exception of an engine loss or some sort of power failure at takeoff. And the King Air has the most reliable turboprop engine on the planet. You’d probably be hard pressed to find more than 10 engine failures at takeoff with a PT-6 engine. And there are tens of thousands of them out there flying everyday.
and the chances of getting killed by a shark while swimming are super slim. Tell that to the coed who gotten eaten in the Bahamas.
Why is it so hard for you to believe a PT6 would fail? I understand how reliable they are (my dad flew a Kingair 200 for years out of PDK), but they DO fail.
Maybe this is the one-in-a-million engine that did?
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:40 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
With 8 passengers and 2 pilots and presumably some luggage a King Air 350 would be at Max gross. Engine failures on PT-6’s are soooo fricking rare though. I’ve heard of planes coming out of maintenance after having some rigging done and the rudder trim being set to full deflection. Also the friction locks on the throttles are notoriously weak on king airs making it easy to have a roll back on the engine.
sounds viable, plus as is usually the case, a combination of things to set the stage for catastrophe, does that airplane have an auto-feathering feature? is that even worth a shite?
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:41 am to mikelbr
quote:
Is it the only airport with a frickin highway under it?
Orlando, too.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:43 am to VeniVidiVici
quote:
Is it the only airport with a frickin highway under it?
quote:
Orlando, too.
roadways beneath airports aren't uncommon at all, usually for airport use though, hell, in Narita you have to taxi through neighborhoods on the airport property to get to and from gate/runway
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:47 am to 777Tiger
quote:
based on this, and it's waaaay too early to make guesses, and eyewitness testimony is usually the most unreliable data, engine fail, inappropriate control input, and maybe heavy and possibly out of cg
It looked like it sliced into the hangar sideways. Would it roll like that with a failure of one engine?
Out of CG would be my very uneducated guess.
This post was edited on 7/1/19 at 9:48 am
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:56 am to chinhoyang
quote:
It looked like it sliced into the hangar sideways. Would it roll like that with a failure of one engine?
again. '23 is our board expert on that airplane, but I just looked at it's proposed flight plan, that's a pretty long leg with 10 peeps, bags, and gas on board, plus the actual route would be longer because they can't fly through the military areas and probably couldn't get high enough to get on the jet route with that load, if the engine quit, or just rolled back at that critical phase, the startle factor would have been pretty high, plus, I'd be surprised if they actually pulled out the whiz wheel and did a weight and balance comp., everything works great until it doesn't
ETA: the airplane would roll in the direction of the failed engine, and this would be aggravated at high gross weight unless proper control inputs were made, and this is assuming a/c was under gross weight and within cg
This post was edited on 7/1/19 at 10:02 am
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:15 am to 777Tiger
A lot of Kinge Airs have been crashing. One crashed in 2013 in Baton Rouge
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:19 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I am an expert and I’m here to tell you that King Airs don’t break.
Fuel issue? Does each engine draw it's own wing tank? I have fueled a Kingair, but the last time was about 39 years ago.
I could see somebody from the weekend crew inadvertently pumping BS&W into a tank. That could cause an engine failure, I'd guess.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:20 am to 777Tiger
quote:
this would be aggravated at high gross weight
And high pressure altitude on a hot day.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:30 am to blueridgeTiger
My old flight instructor got killed in a mid-air over Addison airport way back in the day.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:32 am to 777Tiger
quote:It has autofeather and a rudder boost system. Both work very well in my experience and they make V1 cuts very manageable. Of course if just freeze or aren’t ready for it at all then you could still roll one over, especially at max gross. From what I’ve read though the majority of power losses in king airs are actually from a throttle roll back. I’ve also heard of propellers overspending giving the aircraft asymmetrical thrust causing pilots to believe they’ve lost an engine and they end up shutting down a perfectly good engine.
does that airplane have an auto-feathering feature? is that even worth a shite?
The emergency procedure for a v1 cut in a king air is to fly the airplane straight out and do nothing but verify that the prop is feathered by the autofeather at 400’ and then climb to traffic pattern altitude and conduct the checklist.
This post was edited on 7/1/19 at 10:36 am
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:43 am to JudgeHolden
quote:Possible. There are two single point of failure items on the PT6. One being the high pressure fuel pump. If you lose that the engine quits and you’re not getting it back. Failure is extemelu uncommon. The other is a computerized Fuel Control Unit linked to the throttles and other engine gauges. Still a rare failure but more common than losing a high pressure pump. It also normally fails in the way of adding more fuel than commanded. If that happened it could also give the sensation of asymmetrical thrust causing a startled on novice pilot to believe he had an engine loss.
Fuel issue? Does each engine draw it's own wing tank?
In fact, when discussing emergency procedures in PT6 powered aircraft we rarely use the term “engine failure” anymore. We use the term “power loss” because it’s more likely that your engine didn’t fail but rather you’ve had some sort of throttle roll back, fuel control unit failure or inadvertent prop feathering giving the sensation of an engine failure. The main thing is to keep the nose pointed in the right direction and away from the ground until you figure out exactly what is going on. “No fast hands in the cockpit” is a common saying in most pre takeoff briefings.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:47 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
a startled on novice pilot
not saying this applies in this case but the likelihood of this is increasing every day with the amount of hiring going on in the airlines and the money being thrown around, it's like a vacuum sucking the whole pyramid pool of qualified and experienced pilots upward
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:49 am to 777Tiger
Yeah the King Air is definitely an entry level airplane. Very possible the guy flying it was no more than 25-30 years old. Hell I was PICing King Airs that age. Didn’t know what the hell i was doing either.
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