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re: So Brees is the NFL leader in yards, TDs, comp%; is 13-3, yet isnt the MVP?
Posted on 1/1/12 at 5:44 pm to Catman88
Posted on 1/1/12 at 5:44 pm to Catman88
quote:
Its also a stat that benefits the player with fewer attempts.
You just stated the obvious. A big part of the value Rodgers had through fifteen games was the fact that even though he wasn't more accurate than Brees, his there were more yards gained per attempt. Now I'm willing to concede the YAC vs. completion% argument is a wash.
Rodgers had a higher percentage of his pass attempts go for touchdowns than Brees did. Scores are ultimately what win games. Even if Rodgers had less attempts than Brees, is not the fact that his passes had a higher chance of going for a touchdown a point in favor of Rodgers?
This isn't even taking into account the value Rodgers has as a runner this season. Rodgers rushed for 257 yards and three touchdowns. Combined with his 45 passing touchdowns, that gives him 48 total touchdowns. Brees passed for 46 touchdowns, but only rushed for one touchdown. That gives Brees ultimately one less touchdown than Rodgers. That's a point for Rodgers.
I still take Brees over Rodgers, but this should be a close race.
0
Posted on 1/1/12 at 5:44 pm to shel311
Completion % is hard to maintain as you make more passes.. more passes leads way to more chances you throw an interception. Many players have very high ratings at the beginning of the year but it falls as they have more games under their belt. AR has one less game to screw up.
This post was edited on 1/1/12 at 5:49 pm
Posted on 1/1/12 at 5:54 pm to shel311
shel, even though I don't agree with you at all, I give you props for making a good argument and not being a complete douche about it. 
Posted on 1/1/12 at 5:54 pm to Catman88
quote:
Completion % is hard to maintain as you make more passes.. more passes leads way to more chances you throw an interception. Many players have very high ratings at the beginning of the year but it falls as they have more games under their belt. AR has one less game to screw up.
Rodgers completion % was 68.3%
In 15 games, 7 times his % was over that and 8 times it was under that number.
So yea, while it was over by 1 game, I don't think that is significant enough to say that with confidence.
I only agree with your assertion if you're using small sample sizes. But with 15 games and 400 passes or whatever he threw, that's enough passes that you can't assume 1 game will make those numbers go up or down.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 5:55 pm to Froman
quote:Man, I went from getting absolutely destroyed to getting some love around here.
shel, even though I don't agree with you at all, I give you props for making a good argument and not being a complete douche about it.
Brings a tear to my eye LOL.
And again, for the record, Brees is my guy. My wife tells me at least twice a week that i should have married him instead of her.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:00 pm to shel311
So then you agree that you cannot assume that if AR threw for 130 plus more passes that he would surpass drew brees' records? That has been your argument. Thats not a small sample. Thats a lot of completed 3rd downsto get those extra passes. You cannot extrapolate ARs stats with what ifs. Just as you cannot take away drews 130 worst passes.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:06 pm to Catman88
quote:I assume he would play to his averages.
So then you agree that you cannot assume that if AR threw for 130 plus more passes that he would surpass drew brees' records?
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:09 pm to shel311
or a better way of putting it, you cant say he woulda played above or below his averages with any kind of certainty. The odds of playing better or worse are probably equal.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:16 pm to shel311
Im not claiming anything just that drew brees reached those numbers he has in the same number of games as any other quarterback. He made his own success. AR might not have his only record if he threw an int today which was entirely possible. Ints are weighed too heavy in ratings.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:17 pm to Catman88
quote:Yes he did. I don't deny or take anything away from that.
drew brees reached those numbers he has in the same number of games as any other quarterback. He made his own success.
quote:True. But there's an equal chance that he pads the number and gets it even higher.
AR might not have his only record if he threw an int today which was entirely possible. Ints are weighed too heavy in ratings.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:26 pm to Deathrider
As far as Rodgers not playing today, that was a result of him taking care of business this season so that they could be in the position where this game didn't matter. Something Drew Brees and the Saints failed to do. He should not be penalized for having the best record in the league.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:29 pm to shel311
quote:If you bring Rodgers' average/attempt from 9.2 to the NFL's lowest qualified (Blaine Gabbert) at 5.4, he beats Brees by ~4 yards.
or a better way of putting it, you cant say he woulda played above or below his averages with any kind of certainty. The odds of playing better or worse are probably equal.
This post was edited on 1/1/12 at 6:30 pm
Posted on 1/1/12 at 6:43 pm to Neako27blitzz
quote:
As far as Rodgers not playing today, that was a result of him taking care of business this season so that they could be in the position where this game didn't matter. Something Drew Brees and the Saints failed to do. He should not be penalized for having the best record in the league.
If only Matt Flynn had choked in today's game, I would agree with you. What Matt Flynn did today proved to me they did not need Rodgers to beat playoff teams. And not to nitpick, but Rodgers was able to rest today because the team took care of business.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 7:31 pm to Deathrider
I don't see how anyone could argue against either one. They both deserve it. If Rodgers wins, no doubt he deserves it, but Brees is also deserving. Can't go wrong with either.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 7:35 pm to SaintEB
quote:
I don't see how anyone could argue against either one. They both deserve it.
How's this for an argument:
Drew Brees > Aaron Rodgers
Saints offense > Packers Offense
'Nuff said
Posted on 1/1/12 at 7:39 pm to Breesus
quote:
'Nuff said
Not quite.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 7:50 pm to SaintEB
quote:
Not quite
Cool. What about this:
Matt Flynn's One Game this season > Any of Aaron Rodger's 15?
Posted on 1/1/12 at 8:04 pm to elprez00
quote:
Yup. The national networks can't sell Katrina anymore, so no reason to push southern teams.
what's pathetic is some of you idiots actually believe this stuff
Posted on 1/1/12 at 8:12 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
He passed for the 4th most touchdowns in NFL history
He led his team to a 13-3 record
yet he isn't the MVP?
He has 1 more TD that Rodges and played 1 more game, Rodgers stats are better overall, you are better than this.
Posted on 1/1/12 at 8:17 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Rodgers stats are better overall
Rodgers' stats are not better than Brees'. The Packers stats are better than the Saints stats, 15-1 vs. 13-3.
quote:
He has 1 more TD that Rodges and played 1 more game
So you want to penalize someone for showing up to work more and being more productive.
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