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re: So Brees is the NFL leader in yards, TDs, comp%; is 13-3, yet isnt the MVP?
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:33 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:33 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
you somehow act like Rodgers hasn't had a great season and isn't valuable.
no i didnt you fricking clueless retard. I believe Aaron Rodgers had had a great season and is valuable to his organization. I do strongly belive however that Drew Brees has had a better season and is more valuable to his team and organization
0
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:36 am to Breesus
quote:
. Drew Brees deserves the MVP
He has a case and so does Aaron Rodgers.
quote:
He is more valuable to his franchise than Aaron Rodgers
That's completely meaningless if you separate franchise from team.
quote:
. As for your stupid comments to my $100,000 question:
what's stupid about them? Your premiss is stupid. Responses like that again indicate you have no point.
I'll put it another way. $100M is more than $90M. But $90M is still fricking rich and there is nothing you could do with $100M that I couldn't do with $90, except say you have more.
There is no meaningful difference between having 46 TD's passes or 45. No meaningful difference between throwing for 480 yds and 420. It doesn't matter.
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:38 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:Right it means the Saints asked Drew Brees to pass more than GB asked Rodgers to pass, how do you not see that as an indaction of value?
No it doesn't, it means the Saints threw more passes than GB.
quote:If that were the case it would mean the saints were relying on Brees more to win games, duh.,
There could be 50 different reasons for that, like the Saints were in more close games
quote:again would only show Brees' value,
their RB's didnt do as well
quote:ok, you keep proving my point for me
GB's D got more turnovers, so they had shorter fields
its not a difficult concept. If team A asks player Y to touch the ball 500x and team B asks player Z to touch the ball 400x its pretty obvious that the increase touches is evidence of how valuable player A is to team Y.
This post was edited on 1/2/12 at 1:42 am
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:45 am to Breesus
quote:
no hes not. the point is that we are arguing over the Most valuable player.
and for the 50 millionth time that's just a subjective concept.
quote:
Rodgers back up out performed him today. Common opponent, same team around him
No he didn't, he just played well, throwing for more yds in a 1 games doesn't mean anything.
quote:
Lions playing hard to win
Where they not playing hard to win against the Saints a couple of weeks ago? Flynn had more yds and TDs vs Det outdoors than Brees did indoors and Detriot was playing with out their best defensive player
Damn, I wish I thought of that earlier. Guess we can say Flynn > Brees then.
quote:
There is no way in hell Chase Daniels could out perform drew Brees against a divisional opponent playing to win.
all that means is Flynn > than Daniels which we cleared up 15 pages ago.
quote:
Thus Drew is more Valuable to his team than Aaron Rodgers.
That's one of the biggest logic fails of all time.
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:49 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:yeah he has 2 more total TDs and more YPA. Meanwhile, Brees only leads the league in yds TD passes and Comp % breaking all time records for two of those.
Nope, he has more total TD's and a higher YPA.
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:53 am to bradwieser
quote:
Right it means the Saints asked Drew Brees to pass more than GB asked Rodgers to pass, how do you not see that as an indaction of value?
um, because its not?
There are again literally thousand's of reason why they might throw fewer passes, the most likely being they have a different coach who, when they have big leads they like to bleed the clock, since the objective is after all to win the game. Whether you win 45-17 of 35-17 doesn't matter to anyone but the bean counters.
quote:
ok, you keep proving my point for me
No you ae just confirming your own bias. You are Saints fan, you love Brees, you think he should be MVP so you concoct arguments to "prove" he is more valuable.
Playing on a better team doesn't make Rodgers less valuable. The value is how the team does with team.
quote:
If team A asks player Y to touch the ball 500x and team B asks player Z to touch the ball 400x its pretty obvious that the increase touches is evidence of how valuable player A is to team Y
Apparently it is a difficult concept. All it means is Team A threw more passes, or perhaps ran more plays. Maybe team B likes to chew the clock. Remember what the objective is again?
Posted on 1/2/12 at 1:55 am to bradwieser
quote:
yeah he has 2 more total TDs
In 155 fewer attempts, that's better.
quote:
Meanwhile, Brees only leads the league in yds TD passes and Comp % breaking all time records for two of those
yeah, he's had a great season, so has Rodgers and his season has arguably been better.
Posted on 1/2/12 at 2:00 am to H-Town Tiger
you sound downright foolish trying to claim that amount of touches isn't an indication of value.
and i dont think anyone is claiming Rodgers hasnt had a great season.
and i dont think anyone is claiming Rodgers hasnt had a great season.
Posted on 1/2/12 at 2:01 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:tha frick...?
The value is how the team does with team.
Posted on 1/2/12 at 2:01 am to H-Town Tiger
I'm hitting the sack, but I'll end with this.
Both have had great seasons. Who is more "valuable" is entirely subjective. Neither team would be where they are with out them. That Flynn is a better back up that should/will be starting somewhere else does not mean Rodgers is less valuable. Since "value" in this case is subjective, it can't be argued that its a fact and its worth noting, there is no specific criteria for naming MVP,. so voters are free to vote for who they choose for what ever reasons they want.
Most will look at top skill position players on the top teams. And base their vote on a COMBINATION of stats and team accomplishment. Both Brees and Rodgers fit that bill. Will the cumulative stats or breaking the yardage record help Brees over come Rodgers historic season in terms of TD/INT ratio and efficiency rating as well as his teams overall better record? We;ll see, but its certainly not some grave injustice if Rodgers wins.
Both have had great seasons. Who is more "valuable" is entirely subjective. Neither team would be where they are with out them. That Flynn is a better back up that should/will be starting somewhere else does not mean Rodgers is less valuable. Since "value" in this case is subjective, it can't be argued that its a fact and its worth noting, there is no specific criteria for naming MVP,. so voters are free to vote for who they choose for what ever reasons they want.
Most will look at top skill position players on the top teams. And base their vote on a COMBINATION of stats and team accomplishment. Both Brees and Rodgers fit that bill. Will the cumulative stats or breaking the yardage record help Brees over come Rodgers historic season in terms of TD/INT ratio and efficiency rating as well as his teams overall better record? We;ll see, but its certainly not some grave injustice if Rodgers wins.
Posted on 1/2/12 at 4:09 am to bradwieser
quote:
ok, you keep proving my point for me
its not a difficult concept. If team A asks player Y to touch the ball 500x and team B asks player Z to touch the ball 400x its pretty obvious that the increase touches is evidence of how valuable player A is to team Y.
Back to my running back example.
Your logic says you'd take a running back who had 400 and 1200 yards over one with 200 Carries and 1150 yards because he was asked to run more.
When in reality, no one would really think the 400 Carry back was more valuable. At least I hope not. Lol
Posted on 2/5/12 at 5:59 am to SPEEDY
Fwiw, I'll jump into this.
LINK
quote:
t came down to a choice between Rodgers and Brees, and in the end the Saints QB was left settling for a place on the second team. Why? Well sure he had the stats, but he also threw an awful lot more as he went chasing records, while Rodgers took better care of the ball in leading the Packers to the best record in the NFL. Rodgers led the PFF modified QB rating a clear 11.26 points from Brees, overcoming a high percentage of drops to post the best mark in the NFL.
LINK
Posted on 2/5/12 at 7:55 am to Jcorye1
I'm not disagreeing with Rodgers being MVP. I just can't believe the landslide in which he won in. I just don't understand how a guy has the greatest statistical season in QB history and doesnt have at least a share of the MvP? The bottom line was I think the media was on Rodgers hard very early & just stuck with their guns when voting came up.
It just sucks bc if not for bad luck (LT going nuts in 06, the media sucking Peyton's cock in 09, & this yr w/Rodgers leading the Pack to the top seed), Brees could very well be a 3-time MVP
It just sucks bc if not for bad luck (LT going nuts in 06, the media sucking Peyton's cock in 09, & this yr w/Rodgers leading the Pack to the top seed), Brees could very well be a 3-time MVP
Posted on 2/5/12 at 9:57 am to bradwieser
quote:
Right it means the Saints asked Drew Brees to pass more than GB asked Rodgers to pass, how do you not see that as an indaction of value?
it's an indication of usage and opportunity, not value
rogers was more efficient passing, and it wasn't close. he was safer with the ball, and more aggressive with the ball
brees basically just threw it more. that's his argument
Posted on 2/5/12 at 9:58 am to swagsurfin7
quote:
I just don't understand how a guy has the greatest statistical season in QB history
that was Rogers
Posted on 2/5/12 at 10:15 am to SlowFlowPro
Umm what records did AR break???
Posted on 2/5/12 at 10:29 am to swagsurfin7
Posted on 2/5/12 at 2:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
I'd say it's really close between the two but Rodgers was a more efficient passer, had less than half as many turnovers as Brees, and had more total touchdowns. Plus the fact that the Packers scored more points than the Saints, beat them head to head, and had a better record tilts it towards Rodgers. So, I'm not upset about Brees getting second.
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