re: Saints re-sign Ingram to 4yr/$16m deal

Posted by Breesus

Unplug

Member since Jan 2010

69549 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 3:37 pm to BarbeTiger

quote:
You're an idiot

your an idiot

Fify

Posted by deuce985

Member since Feb 2008

27660 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 3:40 pm to Breesus

This is a terrible deal. He's not worth 4 million a year. Anyone have the contract details and guaranteed money?

Why do the Saints feel like it's so hard to find a cheap consistent RB? It's one of the easiest positions to draft. They have so many late picks every year doing great in the NFL...it's a dime a dozen position. I also share some sentiment in this thread he's going to sit on his money. He wasn't that great until this season and even then he still had his typical injury problems he has EVERY year. You have to question a guy's character when he only decides to get up on contract years.

Do not like this signing at all and it has nothing to do with him coming from Bama. I'd love to see Pierre Thomas numbers on how many yards he got touching the ball. It seemed like every time he touched it he got a 15 yard gain. He's arguably one of the best screen backs in the NFL. The way we run our system of RBs it makes no sense to pay a RB this kind of money. We use too many.

This post was edited on 3/8/15 at 3:46 pm

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Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

290880 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 3:42 pm to htran90

quote:
n. He can't sustain being anything more than a situational back.

That's all we would need Pierre for.

quote:
So for 2.0mil more, who could we have brought in that had similar production to Ingram, decent age, and no major injuries (i.e. knee).

We have one on our roster already in Khiry Robinson. You would bring a RB in to serve as backup ,or as the 1B option.

quote:
along with spending another pick in round 3-7? When we have holes at ILB, OLB, #2CB, DT, G, C, and maybe DE if we let Galette go.

allocate the money given to Ingram to one of those holes. That's my main point. Draft a RB late or even undrafted. We've had so much success doing that, I dont see the reason to re-sign Ingram.

quote:
RB was a position that was solidified that costed 4mil/144.5mil, literally 2.77% of the total cap.

That's misleading, and that's not the point. It's the money given to Ingram now vs what we actually have to spend. We dont have another 140mil to spend.

This post was edited on 3/8/15 at 3:43 pm

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Posted by NawlinsTiger9

Where the mongooses roam

Member since Jan 2009

39659 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 3:45 pm to BasilBogomil

quote:
That is part of it, I guess, but he did himself no favors for his first few seasons in New Orleans. Kid got booed in the dome because he looked lethargic out there, not because he played for Nick Saban. First impression are strong...

On top of that, he has been a little injury prone.

2014, boom, a totally different Ingram. He ran with fire and passion. If we get the 2014 Ingram and not the other guy, this is very good deal for the Saints. But let's not act like there is no reason for any skepticism about Ingram.

This is a really good post and pretty much exactly how I feel.

Posted by BarbeTiger

Mr. White's Lab Yo

Member since Jan 2012

6180 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 3:54 pm to deuce985

quote:
I'd love to see Pierre Thomas numbers on how many yards he got touching the ball. It seemed like every time he touched it he got a 15 yard gain

The team would have went undefeated if he got 15 yards every time he touched it

Posted by bonethug0108

Avondale

Member since Mar 2013

12690 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 3:57 pm to deuce985

Okay I seeing people say how easy it is to draft a good HB late.How about we name them? And while we're at it look at how many of the HBs did jack shite.

Ingram is getting paid top 12 back money(not even top 10). He played at least that good last year.

It's the same bull shite people spew about us drafting Oline late well at will when there have been more busts than gems and that's why our line is going down hill fast.

Facts people. Learn them.

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Posted by htran90

Member since Dec 2012

32300 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:04 pm to Lester Earl

quote:
That's all we would need Pierre for.

okay, which I'm fine with.

quote:
We have one on our roster already in Khiry Robinson. You would bring a RB in to serve as backup ,or as the 1B option.

Who, had arguably 1 better game than Ingram last year, but when was the lead back didn't do so hot either. He had one big run (62 yards) that accounts for 25% of his yards in taht stretch. I went through it last season, he has more 0, 1-2 yard, and negative plays than Ingram did on a per carry basis. It was a drastic difference.

Robinson:
18/69 yards - Minnesota
8/87 yards - Dallas
21/89 yards - TB
Total: 47/245 yards; 5.21ypc
(46/183; 3.98ypc)

Ingram:
24/172 yards - GB
30/100 yards - Carolina
27/120 yards - SF
23/67 yards - Cincy
11/27 yards - Balt
23/122 yards - Pitts
Total: 138/608 yards; 4.41ypc

quote:
allocate the money given to Ingram to one of those holes. That's my main point. Draft a RB late or even undrafted. We've had so much success doing that, I dont see the reason to re-sign Ingram.

You also run a risk of getting another Cadet. Say you draft, thats another 500k you have to pay along with spending a draft pick.

You say "allocate the money" so it'd ultimately be:
PT+1.5mil for another player

or

Ingram. What do you take?

quote:
That's misleading, and that's not the point. It's the money given to Ingram now vs what we actually have to spend. We dont have another 140mil to spend.

the point wasn't to show "we have 140mil more to spend", its the fact that we are spending bad money elsewhere to be in this predicament that 4mil for a solid RB is "a waste"

Posted by bonethug0108

Avondale

Member since Mar 2013

12690 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:06 pm to Lester Earl

quote:
Draft a RB late or even undrafted. We've had so much success doing that, I dont see the reason to re-sign Ingram.

Same with the Oline shite, we can't just hit on these guys at will. That's why Flanders and Strozier failed to replace Cadet, remember?

The only 3 backs we really hit on were Thomas, Ivory (extremely injury prone and had fumbling issues), and Robinson(looking like he will have the same issues as Ivory). We've had some other good backups but no one that could be starters.

Posted by THRILLHO

Old Metairie near Cleary

Member since Apr 2006

50399 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:07 pm to bonethug0108

Abdullah will probably be there in the third and would be a really good compliment to Khiry. I would have liked Mike Davis or David Cobb in the 4th/5th round.

I think Ingram's deal is very reasonable, but that $4m/yr could have taken us from Robert McClain territory to Tramon Williams, possibly Culliver range. I also think Khiry is ready for 240 carries per season.

Posted by htran90

Member since Dec 2012

32300 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:09 pm to deuce985

quote:
Why do the Saints feel like it's so hard to find a cheap consistent RB? It's one of the easiest positions to draft. They have so many late picks every year doing great in the NFL...it's a dime a dozen position.

Do you really want me to bring up every RB drafted since Ingram? It isn't as great as you guys make it sound.

quote:
He wasn't that great until this season and even then he still had his typical injury problems he has EVERY year. You have to question a guy's character when he only decides to get up on contract years.

Really? Because no one has EVER complained inside the locker room or reports of him not showing up to practice or play. He has a great work ethic and players that I have had the chance to meet feel bad that the fans don't see how great of a locker room presence he is.

He's been playing hard for the entire tenure. he's taken off the last 1.5 years.

Go back and read an interview, he's admitted that with the lack of touches prior to this year, he's always tried to "make a home run" type of play instead of settling for 3-4 yards. This year, he said he's settling for those and letting the game come to him. Well damn, 3 straight 100 yard games tells me its not him thats the issue, but the coaching and play selection (which everyone knows is true).

Can't help a RB when opposing LBs call out his number when he's in and says "watch the run"
- Philly Playoff game.

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

290880 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:16 pm to bonethug0108

quote:
Okay I seeing people say how easy it is to draft a good HB late.How about we name them? And while we're at it look at how many of the HBs did jack shite.

Pierre Thomas
Khiry Robinson
Chris Ivory
Joique Bell

Travaris Cadet

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

290880 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:20 pm to bonethug0108

quote:
Same with the Oline shite, we can't just hit on these guys at will. That's why Flanders and Strozier failed to replace Cadet, remember?

There wasn't room for those guys. You were the only one that thought they would make the team.

Posted by bonethug0108

Avondale

Member since Mar 2013

12690 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:20 pm to THRILLHO

Well according to your other thread we are still in that range.

Posted by bonethug0108

Avondale

Member since Mar 2013

12690 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:23 pm to Lester Earl

Forgot Bell. So that's 4 in 9 years. Maybe we are due then.

And

at Cadet being a good HB. Sure he can catch (and go down right away) but he sure in the frick sucks at running.

Posted by htran90

Member since Dec 2012

32300 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:39 pm to htran90

Since so many people love to say "RB's are a dime a dozen", I decided to count starters/high snap count RBs in each draft after Ingram was drafted.

2011:
2nd round: 1/4 (Vereen)
3rd: 2/3 (Murray, Ridley)
4th: 0/6 (maybe 1 if you count Helu, but he's situational)
5th: 0/3
6th: 0/3
7th: 0/4
UDFA: 0
Total: 3/23 13.04% (Vereen, Ridley, Murray)
- Ridley and Vereen were 1-2, Ridley injured

2012:
1st: 1/3 (Martin; Richardson is finished)
2nd: 0/2
3rd: 1/2 (Pierce, Hillman count half each)
4th: 1/2 (Miller)
5th: 0/2
6th: 1/4 (Morris)
7th: 0/4
UDFA: 1 (Rainey)
Total: 5/20; 25% (Martin, Pierce, Hillman, Miller, Morris, Rainey)
- Pierce, Hillman was replaced this year
- Martin/Rainey are RBBC

2013:
1st: 0/0
2nd: 4/5 (Bernard, Bell, Ball, and Lacy)
3rd: 0/1
4th: 0/2
5th: 1/6 (Stacy)
6th: 1/7 (Ellington)
7th: 0/3
UDFA: 2 (Robinson, Anderson)
Total: 8/26; 30.77% (Bernard, Bell, Ball, Lacy, Stacy, Ellington, Robinson, and Anderson)
- Zac Stacy was replaced this year
- Ball was injured and replaced by Anderson

2014:
1st: 0/0
2nd: 1/3 (Hill, Sankey/Hyde both show potential)
3rd: 1/5 (Mason, West/McKinnon are in RBBCs, Sims/Archer are situational)
4th: 1/6 (Williams, could potentially add Freeman, Taliaferro)
5th: 0/0
6th: 1/4 (Blue)
7th: 0/2
UDFA: 2 (Crowell, Oliver)
6/22 27.3%
- Hard to measure 1 year's production, but nobody this year stood out and took over all season except Hill

4 ...

Posted by bonethug0108

Avondale

Member since Mar 2013

12690 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:47 pm to htran90

I really wanted Hill (and we could have traded up for him instead of taking SJB and wasting our 4th on Fortt but that's hindsight) because I knew he was legit (best back since McCoy and Peterson) and thought Ingram would bolt.

Outside of that, I think I'd only prefer Murray (maybe; could have been that line) or Bell(and maybe Morris).

This post was edited on 3/8/15 at 4:48 pm

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

290880 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:48 pm to htran90

What are you trying to prove with those numbers? What are you using to determine worth?

Note: of the top 20 rushers in the NFL last season, only 3 were taken in the 1st round. Lynch(4th), Ingram(14th), and Jonathan Stewart (20th).

2 were undrafted guys the Saints found.

Posted by THRILLHO

Old Metairie near Cleary

Member since Apr 2006

50399 posts

Posted on 3/8/15 at 4:48 pm to htran90

That's good research, but the RB group in this draft is WAY better than any in recent memory.