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re: Saints improve to rank second-to-last in cap space after Erik McCoy contract restructure
Posted on 2/21/23 at 8:11 pm to Proximo
Posted on 2/21/23 at 8:11 pm to Proximo
quote:
and it’s never an issue to the team
Look at our dead cap for 2023. It's clearly an issue.
We have slightly over $5M for Jenkins, Vannett, Book, and Jordan Jackson.
Then we have Onyamata's $10.2M ghost hit and Davenport's $7.6M ghost hit.
That's over $20M of cap gone. Over 10% of our cap space is already spoken for via dead cap hits. That's an issue.
With no more manipulations, we top that in 2024 with only 2 contracts: the likely Thomas post-June 1 cut ($11.9M dead cap in 2024) and Cam's $12.7M cap hit (due to voidable years)
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Posted on 2/21/23 at 8:13 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
I am surprised they have not close d the "voidable years" loophole. It clearly is only in place to circumvent the cap. I would bet that gets eliminated in the next negotiations.
It's not really a loop hole. You still ultimately have to account for the bonus money.
See: Davenport and Onyamata's cap hits this year without contracts, or Cam's next year.
Posted on 2/21/23 at 9:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
See: Davenport and Onyamata's cap hits this year without contracts, or Cam's
See: every player's contracts. Shite is out of hand. They do it when there is zero need. Loomis is now adding dummy years to contracts worth 4 mil.
Posted on 2/21/23 at 11:16 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
See: every player's contracts. Shite is out of hand. They do it when there is zero need. Loomis is now adding dummy years to contracts worth 4 mil.
i mean we're routinely against the cap, so really every penny was needed.
2024 we have those still:
Cam Jordan 12.7mil
Jameis Winston 8.4mil
David Onyemata 4.5mil
Marcus Davenport 5.6mil
Not including Trequan's 1mil, carl granderson's 80k, and Tanoh's 1.5mil
2025 is the first year it doesn't hit us for 20mil+
The idea is smart, the execution is poor (Winston's contract for example).
We need to level out these bad contracts and get low risk-high reward guys
Posted on 2/22/23 at 7:31 am to htran90
quote:
2025 is the first year it doesn't hit us for 20mil+
After 2 years of pushing back Lattimore and Ram's deals, it will be 20M+ again
I have to imagine we "extend" both with dummy years this offseason, which is going to blow up future caps something fierce.
But, I go back to the main point: this DOES affect our cap situation because we literally can't use a chunk of our cap every year. This not only affects our ability to deal with big contracts and being over the cap, but our ability to sign new players.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 7:37 am to msstate7
The board bitches for good reason
We are a terrible football team with no QB, zero cap space, limited draft capital, a terrible coaching staff, a thug running back, a wide receiver that has sat out 3 years with an ankle sprain, that can’t even convince the likes of Derek Carr to agree to get traded to us.
The Saints are down bad and the organization has earned every bit of the shitty position they are in right now. It’s not even due to tough luck. It’s been driven by elite levels of incompetence on many different levels.
We are a terrible football team with no QB, zero cap space, limited draft capital, a terrible coaching staff, a thug running back, a wide receiver that has sat out 3 years with an ankle sprain, that can’t even convince the likes of Derek Carr to agree to get traded to us.
The Saints are down bad and the organization has earned every bit of the shitty position they are in right now. It’s not even due to tough luck. It’s been driven by elite levels of incompetence on many different levels.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 7:38 am
Posted on 2/22/23 at 7:46 am to 3PieceSpicy
The saints are 65-33 the last 5 seasons. After drew left, we're 16-18. One of the all-time great coaches, belichick is 25-25 since brady left. Did you expect no adjustment period after losing an all-time great qb?
We had a nice draft last season, and I'm hoping we do the same again this year. And we have some draft capital - 5 picks in the top 2 rounds the next 2 seasons
I don't care how much you bitch BTW. It's annoying and it won't change a damn thing, but cry away
We had a nice draft last season, and I'm hoping we do the same again this year. And we have some draft capital - 5 picks in the top 2 rounds the next 2 seasons
I don't care how much you bitch BTW. It's annoying and it won't change a damn thing, but cry away
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 7:48 am
Posted on 2/22/23 at 8:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
After 2 years of pushing back Lattimore and Ram's deals, it will be 20M+ again I have to imagine we "extend" both with dummy years this offseason, which is going to blow up future caps something fierce. But, I go back to the main point: this DOES affect our cap situation because we literally can't use a chunk of our cap every year. This not only affects our ability to deal with big contracts and being over the cap, but our ability to sign new players.
As I understand it, this is in fact loser talk per some of the geniuses on this board. Keep pushing it forward and let’s roll with a dollar store version of the Brees/Payton years! The division is ours damnit.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 8:46 am
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:03 am to St Augustine
This is a business. Winning the division getting a home playoff game is good for business. Not sure why some can't grasp this
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:11 am to msstate7
It is like these dipshit fans don't remember anything before Katrina. I will happily take competing for a division crown every year over the "maybe next year" sentiments that we had every October.
Watching shitty football sucks. Even as bad as Dennis Allen was, he was still better than pretty much every other coach we have had outside of Payton, Mora and Hasslett.
Watching shitty football sucks. Even as bad as Dennis Allen was, he was still better than pretty much every other coach we have had outside of Payton, Mora and Hasslett.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:23 am to msstate7
quote:
Winning the division getting a home playoff game is good for business. Not sure why some can't grasp this
At the expense of the future and your apex during this entire period.
You're talking about minimal short term gains and we're talking about much more abundant, longer-term potential.
These bills will come due at some point, especially if we try to sign a QB. When that happens, we're in for 3-5 years of bottom-dwelling. How is that good for business?
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:32 am to SlowFlowPro
Tanking isn't a sure path to success.
The argument is moot anyway... we have to get under the cap, and we can't cut our way there.
ETA... You're wanting to be bottom 3-5 next season. If we bottom 3-5 next season or in 3 seasons, what's the difference other than time line?
The argument is moot anyway... we have to get under the cap, and we can't cut our way there.
ETA... You're wanting to be bottom 3-5 next season. If we bottom 3-5 next season or in 3 seasons, what's the difference other than time line?
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 9:34 am
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:35 am to saints5021
quote:
It is like these dipshit fans don't remember anything before Katrina. I will happily take competing for a division crown every year over the "maybe next year" sentiments that we had every October.
Living year to year as opposed attempting to build for a sustained run is EXACTLY what we did before Katrina. We remember all about the shitty bridge qbs, low overall ceiling and inconsistency.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:35 am to msstate7
How is making the playoffs anything but good? You can't win anything without qualifying for the playoffs.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:36 am to St Augustine
Tanking didn't land us Brees.
Even Payton was in the 7-win hell a few years back before hitting a jackpot in the draft. 7-9 win teams are always a great draft or qb from being a contender
Even Payton was in the 7-win hell a few years back before hitting a jackpot in the draft. 7-9 win teams are always a great draft or qb from being a contender
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:41 am to msstate7
quote:
Tanking isn't a sure path to success. The argument is moot anyway... we have to get under the cap, and we can't cut our way there. ETA... You're wanting to be bottom 3-5 next season. If we bottom 3-5 next season or in 3 seasons, what's the difference other than time line?
Nobody is saying let’s tank. Simply minimize the pushing forward of money to stop the compounding of it in the future. Obviously we have to do it to an extent to become compliant due to previous recklessness. Certainly don’t pay a premium for an barely above average qb which will result in a lot more of this with likely very little to show for it.
I’d certainly rather bottom out sooner rather than later than do just enough to maintain our mediocre staff while maybe achieving a low ceiling before hitting that same point anyway.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 9:45 am
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:45 am to St Augustine
I'm torn on carr. I could be sold on getting him or building the cast and drafting a qb
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:51 am to msstate7
I like Carr. I just don’t think the reward is greater than the potential risk right now. If he was 28 like Brees was (or we weren’t so over the cap) it’d be more worth the gamble. But I’m afraid he is what he is at this point.
I’m really not advocating tanking as much as I don’t want is to keep pushing money forward for a bite of an apple that I don’t really think is there.
I just want us to draft well and restock the cupboard for a year or two. Let Ireland do his thing. If we need to make a big move for a qb we like in the near future like KC did for Mahomes we will be in a better position to surround him with FAs at that time.
Having a qb yo build around who is cheap for 5 years would do wonders for our franchise and finances even if he didn’t end up with an elite ceiling.
I’m really not advocating tanking as much as I don’t want is to keep pushing money forward for a bite of an apple that I don’t really think is there.
I just want us to draft well and restock the cupboard for a year or two. Let Ireland do his thing. If we need to make a big move for a qb we like in the near future like KC did for Mahomes we will be in a better position to surround him with FAs at that time.
Having a qb yo build around who is cheap for 5 years would do wonders for our franchise and finances even if he didn’t end up with an elite ceiling.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 2/22/23 at 10:09 am to msstate7
quote:
Tanking isn't a sure path to success.
Sure, but we will face that.
Would you rather rebuild with a clean cap or 20-30% of your cap eaten up with dead money? Which do you think will take longer?
quote:
You're wanting to be bottom 3-5 next season. If we bottom 3-5 next season or in 3 seasons, what's the difference other than time line
1. We know what we have, which isn't a good team. We may not have a good team in a future rebuild, but we KNOW we don't have one now. We could have a good team after a rebuild.
2. 3-5 year rebuild starting in 2023 becomes a 5-7 rebuild in 2025 (especially if we defer so much to sign a big QB). The longer we keep screwing up our cap and then screwing it up more for short-term fixes, the longer the rebuild will have to be.
quote:
and we can't cut our way there.
I understand. I made a thread on this in September. We can't even start rebuilding for 2-3 years. That number gets worse the longer we prolong this
Posted on 2/22/23 at 10:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I understand. I made a thread on this in September. We can't even start rebuilding for 2-3 years. That number gets worse the longer we prolong this
Yes, you did.
You are a broken record beating a dead horse.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 10:21 am
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