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Penalty Stats
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:14 am
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:14 am
I posted in another thread about penalties, but I decided to make a new thread to go into a bit more detail.
If you watch the games, a lot of us get the feeling that the refs and the league are "out to get us". But if you look at the total penalty statistics, the Saints may be on the high side but the pure numbers don't jump out at you as nefarious.
Total Penalties
Jacksonville 129
Tampa Bay 122
Cleveland 118
Oakland 118
New Orleans 117
Atlanta 114
N.Y. Jets 113
Arizona 113
Buffalo 112
Detroit 109
LA Rams 108
Houston 106
Pittsburgh 105
Washington 104
Seattle 104
Baltimore 103
Kansas City 102
Denver 101
Chicago 100
Dallas 99
San Francisco 97
LA Chargers 95
Tennessee 94
Philadelphia 93
Cincinnati 90
Minnesota 90
Green Bay 89
Miami 88
New England 88
N.Y. Giants 86
Carolina 82
Indianapolis 75
Mean 102
StDev 12.6
The least penalized team is 2.1 standard deviations below the mean, and the most penalized team is also 2.1 standard deviations above the mean. Nothing here indicates foul play. Some teams just commit more penalties than others.
Now, obviously not all penalties are created equal. Problem is it is very difficult to estimate the impact each penalty has on the game. But if we just want to try to determine if the games are being manipulated, we need to single out certain types of penalties that are subject to manipulation. That is, the penalties that are often judgement calls, and that could be flagged on nearly every play if close enough attention is paid. These would be offensive and defensive holding, offensive and defending pass interference, and hands to the face.
Judgement Calls - Per Game
New Orleans 5.40
Jacksonville 4.80
Kansas City 4.73
Miami 4.73
N.Y. Jets 4.33
Minnesota 4.57
Denver 4.20
Oakland 4.20
Detroit 4.13
Washington 4.00
Tampa Bay 3.93
Atlanta 3.80
Pittsburgh 3.73
N.Y. Giants 3.67
LA Chargers 3.60
Seattle 3.60
Chicago 3.53
Indianapolis 3.53
Cleveland 3.47
Tennessee 3.47
New England 3.33
Philadelphia 3.27
Baltimore 3.20
Houston 3.20
Buffalo 3.13
Dallas 3.07
San Francisco 2.93
Arizona 2.87
LA Rams 2.87
Green Bay 2.93
Cincinnati 2.27
Carolina 2.07
Mean 3.64
StDev 0.74
The least penalized team by these 5 penalty types is 2.1 standard deviations below the mean. This is expected given the total penalty stats. The most penalized team by these 5 penalty types, excluding the Saints, is 1.57 standard deviations above the mean. This is also well within reason given the total stats. What may stand out is that the Saints are penalized in these 5 penalties much more often than anyone else. The Saints are 2.38 standard deviations above the mean in these penalties that are subject to manipulation.
Now, the penalty figures for the Saints are not absurdly high. They are not high enough to be an obvious example of manipulation, but they are certainly high enough to raise an eyebrow. We might get a clearer picture of what is going on if we could combine this data with the game situation at the time of the penalty.
But as it stands, this data is IMO enough to make me feel that there is an agenda in the NFL.
If you watch the games, a lot of us get the feeling that the refs and the league are "out to get us". But if you look at the total penalty statistics, the Saints may be on the high side but the pure numbers don't jump out at you as nefarious.
Total Penalties
Jacksonville 129
Tampa Bay 122
Cleveland 118
Oakland 118
New Orleans 117
Atlanta 114
N.Y. Jets 113
Arizona 113
Buffalo 112
Detroit 109
LA Rams 108
Houston 106
Pittsburgh 105
Washington 104
Seattle 104
Baltimore 103
Kansas City 102
Denver 101
Chicago 100
Dallas 99
San Francisco 97
LA Chargers 95
Tennessee 94
Philadelphia 93
Cincinnati 90
Minnesota 90
Green Bay 89
Miami 88
New England 88
N.Y. Giants 86
Carolina 82
Indianapolis 75
Mean 102
StDev 12.6
The least penalized team is 2.1 standard deviations below the mean, and the most penalized team is also 2.1 standard deviations above the mean. Nothing here indicates foul play. Some teams just commit more penalties than others.
Now, obviously not all penalties are created equal. Problem is it is very difficult to estimate the impact each penalty has on the game. But if we just want to try to determine if the games are being manipulated, we need to single out certain types of penalties that are subject to manipulation. That is, the penalties that are often judgement calls, and that could be flagged on nearly every play if close enough attention is paid. These would be offensive and defensive holding, offensive and defending pass interference, and hands to the face.
Judgement Calls - Per Game
New Orleans 5.40
Jacksonville 4.80
Kansas City 4.73
Miami 4.73
N.Y. Jets 4.33
Minnesota 4.57
Denver 4.20
Oakland 4.20
Detroit 4.13
Washington 4.00
Tampa Bay 3.93
Atlanta 3.80
Pittsburgh 3.73
N.Y. Giants 3.67
LA Chargers 3.60
Seattle 3.60
Chicago 3.53
Indianapolis 3.53
Cleveland 3.47
Tennessee 3.47
New England 3.33
Philadelphia 3.27
Baltimore 3.20
Houston 3.20
Buffalo 3.13
Dallas 3.07
San Francisco 2.93
Arizona 2.87
LA Rams 2.87
Green Bay 2.93
Cincinnati 2.27
Carolina 2.07
Mean 3.64
StDev 0.74
The least penalized team by these 5 penalty types is 2.1 standard deviations below the mean. This is expected given the total penalty stats. The most penalized team by these 5 penalty types, excluding the Saints, is 1.57 standard deviations above the mean. This is also well within reason given the total stats. What may stand out is that the Saints are penalized in these 5 penalties much more often than anyone else. The Saints are 2.38 standard deviations above the mean in these penalties that are subject to manipulation.
Now, the penalty figures for the Saints are not absurdly high. They are not high enough to be an obvious example of manipulation, but they are certainly high enough to raise an eyebrow. We might get a clearer picture of what is going on if we could combine this data with the game situation at the time of the penalty.
But as it stands, this data is IMO enough to make me feel that there is an agenda in the NFL.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:28 am to Korkstand
With all the grief we have given goodell during his tenure, I know he personally hates the saints and the fans.
And I hate him too. Sport would be bigger and better without him.
And I hate him too. Sport would be bigger and better without him.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:31 am to Korkstand
quote:
the game situation at the time of the penalty.
Thats the ones you need to look at. They're crazy high. Penalties that were called on 3rd down when we got a sack that gave the other team a 1st down, penalties called on us when we got a 1st, stuff along those lines. Mini impact plays that change the course of the game.
I'm not saying they're out to get us, but I'm just saying....
eta: y'all mfers don't sleep?
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 3:33 am
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:38 am to GeauxTigers0107
quote:frickin referees keep me awake at night
eta: y'all mfers don't sleep?
Posted on 12/23/19 at 5:39 am to Korkstand
One thing that stands out is in total penalties the top ten penalized teams are all bottom dwellers except the Saints. Penalties go hand in hand with poor coaching, undisciplined, and poor team execution. The Saints however have overcome their penalties.
This proves even further that the Saints are the target of terrible calls. Good enough to be 12-3 yet 5th most penalized team?
I think some of the weaker teams are doing well in penalties because they are just not that aggressive and the games get out of hand and there are a lot less fight in them. Screw Goodell, Screw the Refs.
This proves even further that the Saints are the target of terrible calls. Good enough to be 12-3 yet 5th most penalized team?
I think some of the weaker teams are doing well in penalties because they are just not that aggressive and the games get out of hand and there are a lot less fight in them. Screw Goodell, Screw the Refs.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:06 am to Korkstand
Can someone post the article that shows the hands to the face and PI penalties that show a different side to this equation?
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:10 am to Korkstand
as soon as i hear the Referee's voice (monotone and recognizable) i knew it was going to be Flag Day and Boom they started flying.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:13 am to Korkstand
Robertson got straight up punched..no call...Titans Offensive line jumped early 3 times..NO Call.one flag was throwned based on one Guy on the ground because the Reff assumed he was held but dint see it..explain that.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:19 am to shel311
Check out this guy's data - read the entire thread. It's striking how much the Saints have been punished by officials in critical situations... oh, and also how much the Packers are benefited.
Penalty benefit
Penalty benefit
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:56 am to Korkstand
If we are in the position to get the #1 seed (Vikings beat the Packers). I have a feeling that the flags will flying in the Panthers game. But we will see..
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:02 am to Athis
quote:
I have a feeling that the flags will flying in the Panthers game
I kinda feel like they wont throw them to try and bring the total flags thrown back towards the mean....less obvious.
Now playoffs, thats a different story.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:05 am to Athis
The bigger issue that you need to look at is the trend over the course of the season. After the Saints survived the time without Brees following his injury, from the point he returned on, there was a significant spike in penalties against the Saints which makes no sense. Having Brees back would logically reduce those penalties at best and keep them the same at worst.
Instead, they skyrocketed since the bye week. That is why looking at the season as a whole is not appropriate.
Instead, they skyrocketed since the bye week. That is why looking at the season as a whole is not appropriate.
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