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Payton's offensive coaching staff questions.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 11:36 am
Posted on 2/15/22 at 11:36 am
Were there internal problems among Payton's offensive coaching staff? The moves made by DA and the Saints organization regarding the offense seems to be indicating there may have been some friction. Loomis and Co. made sure that they expressed how much they wanted the culture of the Payton era to remain, but then they pretty much dismantled the offensive staff.
The second sign that there may have been problems is the release of Curtis Johnson. He was not wanted to stay around much less not a consideration for OC. That says a lot.
Was Payton's involvement in his offense so much that he micromanaged and covered for the inadequacy of his staff?
The second sign that there may have been problems is the release of Curtis Johnson. He was not wanted to stay around much less not a consideration for OC. That says a lot.
Was Payton's involvement in his offense so much that he micromanaged and covered for the inadequacy of his staff?
8
Posted on 2/15/22 at 11:44 am to fwtex
I think it just comes down to how bad the offense was at every level. Not even close to the standard that has been set. In the NFL when it goes that bad, changes are coming. The excuses don’t matter.
This post was edited on 2/15/22 at 11:45 am
Posted on 2/15/22 at 11:48 am to fwtex
Internal problems in an offense that has been top in the league for last 15+ years? When you HOF QB retires and his replacement gets hurt early on, who’s replacement also got hurt and missed half the season that tends to cause problems. Not to mention MT not playing. Coaches come and go, especially position coaches.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 11:58 am to fwtex
CSP drove the offensive bus. He needed people do do certain things and not do other things. Allen won’t be driving the offensive bus. He needs to revamp the staff to replace what was lost.
I also think it’s partially about being a leader and wanting your own people in place. Remember how CSP had Vitt around forever as his defensive guy. I’m sure Allen wants his guys on staff too.
I also think it’s partially about being a leader and wanting your own people in place. Remember how CSP had Vitt around forever as his defensive guy. I’m sure Allen wants his guys on staff too.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 12:00 pm to fwtex
Haven't paid too much attention to who they kept, and the only areas I've seen discussed about replacing was O-line coach (team's weakness last year), WR coach (questions about who Curtis actually developed), and Carmichael duties reassigned (DA probably wants an OC that can call plays)
Posted on 2/15/22 at 12:11 pm to fwtex
Wrong or right... When you are a HC you want your own staff. Not one forced upon you.
Having said that if he doesnt keep guys on the defensive side of the ball like Nielsen and try and retain Richard than ill be a bit concerned
Having said that if he doesnt keep guys on the defensive side of the ball like Nielsen and try and retain Richard than ill be a bit concerned
Posted on 2/15/22 at 12:54 pm to Weekend Warrior79
Carmichael can call plays. He told DA he didn't want the OC job any more.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 12:56 pm to fwtex
quote:
Loomis and Co. made sure that they expressed how much they wanted the culture of the Payton era to remain, but then they pretty much dismantled the offensive staff.
quote:
Was Payton's involvement in his offense so much that he micromanaged and covered for the inadequacy of his staff?
yes for the most part, payton was the offense, everyone else there had titles in name only and were just glorified assistants
Posted on 2/15/22 at 2:07 pm to fwtex
I'll skip all the soap opera stuff and just ask this:
If the new coach did not change one position coach who would we say is really running the team?
If the new coach did not change one position coach who would we say is really running the team?
Posted on 2/15/22 at 2:46 pm to goatmilker
Obama?
Posted on 2/15/22 at 4:11 pm to goatmilker
Making the change in coaches is not unexpected and I am not opposed to the changes at all. The moves made so far make me curious if Allen or the front office saw things that were hindering the offense from being as affective as it could be. Is it possible that the offense will actually be better, no offense to Payton, by having Allen's defensive perspective influencing how the offense is run?
Allen has been around and he has had the benefit of being able to exploit the offense and watch the offensive staff work everyday. He obviously saw some things he did not agree with but that was Payton's house and call to make.
Allen has been around and he has had the benefit of being able to exploit the offense and watch the offensive staff work everyday. He obviously saw some things he did not agree with but that was Payton's house and call to make.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 4:41 pm to fwtex
quote:
Is it possible that the offense will actually be better, no offense to Payton, by having Allen's defensive perspective influencing how the offense is run?
In my opinion it will raise the floor but lower the ceiling.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 5:14 pm to fwtex
How about Payton’s very lackluster coaching tree? For a 16 year coach with much success, you’d think assistants would be poached for HC jobs. This is what I found:
quote:
During his time as head coach, four assistant coaches, (Dennis Allen, Doug Marrone, Marc Trestman, and Dan Campbell) on his coaching staff were hired as head coaches across the league. His coaching tree has combined for a record of 61-119-1 in the regular season and 2-1 in the playoffs during their twelve seasons as head coach after serving on his coaching staffs.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 6:09 pm to LSUZombie
quote:
During his time as head coach, four assistant coaches, (Dennis Allen, Doug Marrone, Marc Trestman, and Dan Campbell) on his coaching staff were hired as head coaches across the league. His coaching tree has combined for a record of 61-119-1 in the regular season and 2-1 in the playoffs during their twelve seasons as head coach after serving on his coaching staffs.
It's hard to judge when their QBs were awful. The McVay tree includes LaFleur, Taylor, and Staley but their QBs are Rodgers, Burrow, and Herbert.
It seems like most head coaches were at least coordinators at some point. Until Allen we've never really had defensive coordinators other teams have wanted to promote to head coach. In fact, I think before Allen that Ron Zook was the last Saints coach to not be fired. On offense, Carmichael has been in a good place for a long time without really wanting HC job himself. That it's taken position coaches to rise to head coaches is pretty outstanding for those guys, and it's unfortunate they've not had QBs.
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