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Kickoffs
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:44 pm
Wouldn't it be a better strategy for the kickoff team to have the kicker kick a line drive about 15-20 feet high to land somewhere around the beginning of the landing zone? That would allow the coverage to move when the ball hits the ground and also force to returner to field a bouncing ball off the ground.
It seems like this would more likely than not pin the returning team inside the 20.
It seems like this would more likely than not pin the returning team inside the 20.
5
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:46 pm to fwtex
I guess but the risk of the ball landing short is pretty high. Just like with the old kickoff, pinning the ball near the sidelines was optimal but way too risky.
Teams will be willing to concede the 30 yard line but I doubt many teams will concede the 40
Teams will be willing to concede the 30 yard line but I doubt many teams will concede the 40
Posted on 9/10/24 at 3:03 pm to fwtex
No one moves till the ball is received.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 3:15 pm to fwtex
quote:
hat would allow the coverage to move when the ball hits the ground and also force to returner to field a bouncing ball off the ground.
It's only a 20 yard landing zone. A lot of the returners are starting in the field of play and are excellent and gauging the trajectory of the ball. Along with landing short, you also risk allowing the returner to catch it roughly 10-15 yards closer and potentially giving them a running start.
But, if you are successful, you really only have 1 bite at the apple because team's will start game planning that and have their guy line up further up field
Posted on 9/10/24 at 4:17 pm to fwtex
I thought the rule was no one cam move until the returner catches the ball?
Posted on 9/10/24 at 6:49 pm to Willietd
quote:
I thought the rule was no one cam move until the returner catches the ball?
or hits the ground in the landing zone or endzone
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/rules-changes/new-dynamic-kickoff-rule-explainer/
Posted on 9/10/24 at 7:36 pm to mdomingue
They've removed one of the most exciting parts of the game
Posted on 9/10/24 at 10:07 pm to fwtex
Roger Goodell is an idiot.
That's my comment about kickoffs.
That's my comment about kickoffs.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 6:52 am to mdomingue
So my question is what if the ball goes into the setup zone instead? Can players attempt to move right away if the ball looks like it's heading there (I guess while being penalized if it does land past the setup zone)? Or does the kicking team get penalized for the ball not going far enough?
Edit:
Clicked the link and found the answer. Pretty severe.
"Any kick that hits short of the landing zone – treated like kickoff out of bounds and ball spotted at B40 yard line; play would be blown dead as soon as kick lands short of the landing zone"
So looking at that, you don't want to risk short kicks at all.
Edit2:
No more surprise onside kicks (think they had killed those effectively but not outright already anyway), and can only declare in the 4th, with no option to kick deep if you don't like the alignment (severe penalty if you do, giving the offense the ball at the opponent's 20).
Edit:
Clicked the link and found the answer. Pretty severe.
"Any kick that hits short of the landing zone – treated like kickoff out of bounds and ball spotted at B40 yard line; play would be blown dead as soon as kick lands short of the landing zone"
So looking at that, you don't want to risk short kicks at all.
Edit2:
No more surprise onside kicks (think they had killed those effectively but not outright already anyway), and can only declare in the 4th, with no option to kick deep if you don't like the alignment (severe penalty if you do, giving the offense the ball at the opponent's 20).
This post was edited on 9/11/24 at 7:05 am
Posted on 9/11/24 at 6:58 am to goatmilker
quote:
No one moves till the ball is received.
This would create opportunity for the receiving team to do some cheesy shite if the returner has to actually touch it first. Ball hitting the ground counts as "received" as well, thankfully.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 7:06 am to Bayou
quote:
They've removed one of the most exciting parts of the game
They did the analysis and surprise inside kicks were attempted only a handful of times a season. Sure, they eliminated the surprise; but it wasn’t a wildly used play
Posted on 9/11/24 at 7:13 am to Weekend Warrior79
Iirc, even though they were attempted far less, the chance of success was far greater (mostly because traditional onside kicks have a horrendously low success rate).
Edit:
"An onside kick is considered successful if the kicking team regains the ball. Between 2001 and 2010, surprise onside kicks were successful 60% of the time, while expected onside kicks were successful less than 20% of the time.[5] Another study of just the 2005 and 2006 seasons also found similar disparities depending on whether the defense expects an onside kick"
"Overall, the success rate of the onside kick has dropped considerably since these rule changes. In the 2018 NFL season, only four of 52 onside kicks (8%) were successful, a figure that had dropped to 6% (two of 32) through the first eleven weeks of 2019."
60% vs the more recent less than 10%. But they didn't just kill them this year outside of officially. They have been dead since the last major change.
Edit:
"An onside kick is considered successful if the kicking team regains the ball. Between 2001 and 2010, surprise onside kicks were successful 60% of the time, while expected onside kicks were successful less than 20% of the time.[5] Another study of just the 2005 and 2006 seasons also found similar disparities depending on whether the defense expects an onside kick"
"Overall, the success rate of the onside kick has dropped considerably since these rule changes. In the 2018 NFL season, only four of 52 onside kicks (8%) were successful, a figure that had dropped to 6% (two of 32) through the first eleven weeks of 2019."
60% vs the more recent less than 10%. But they didn't just kill them this year outside of officially. They have been dead since the last major change.
This post was edited on 9/11/24 at 7:17 am
Posted on 9/11/24 at 7:21 am to bonethug0180
At this point I'm definitely more of a fan of the idea of giving the kicking team a chance to instead run a scrimmage play from their own 20 with 4th and 20 and letting it play out like a normal play.
Not sure if it would be more successful than the less than 10%, but it would be far more exciting and take more balls to go for it (or just be that desperate).
Not sure if it would be more successful than the less than 10%, but it would be far more exciting and take more balls to go for it (or just be that desperate).
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:37 am to bonethug0180
I am on the fence about the kickoff change and think the went to deep in defining a landing zone and ydg penalties of that landing zone. I don't see the purpose of starting the landing zone at the 20. I did notice the SF strategy on MNF is to kick it out the end zone and give up the 30 yard line.
"Any kick that hits short of the landing zone – treated like kickoff out of bounds and ball spotted at B40 yard line; play would be blown dead as soon as kick lands short of the landing zone"
"Hits" is an odd choice of words here. One could argue that a ball could roll into the landing zone and it at that point "hits" the landing zone. But it appears the NFL definition of "hits" is that the ball first contact on the field has to be in the landing zone.
I still believe a pro kicker could kick a line drive into a 20 yard zone at least 95% of the time, especially indoors.
"Any kick that hits short of the landing zone – treated like kickoff out of bounds and ball spotted at B40 yard line; play would be blown dead as soon as kick lands short of the landing zone"
"Hits" is an odd choice of words here. One could argue that a ball could roll into the landing zone and it at that point "hits" the landing zone. But it appears the NFL definition of "hits" is that the ball first contact on the field has to be in the landing zone.
I still believe a pro kicker could kick a line drive into a 20 yard zone at least 95% of the time, especially indoors.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 10:27 am to fwtex
Grupe did a fantastic job of putting the ball right at the 1 yard line over and over again. Most of those returns made it to around the 25. Seems better to me 
Other teams just kicked to the end zone and gave the opponent the 30.
I imagine we were near the top in field position after kicks week one but have not found the data yet.
Other teams just kicked to the end zone and gave the opponent the 30.
I imagine we were near the top in field position after kicks week one but have not found the data yet.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 11:58 am to fwtex
Also to be noted our S.T. coach was one of the few that helped the nfl develop the new kick off rules so I have faith he knows what he is doing.
But...why oh why was Wilson returning that late punt? Seemed to make little sence. Anyone hear why?
But...why oh why was Wilson returning that late punt? Seemed to make little sence. Anyone hear why?
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