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re: As much as I hate to say it Mahomes is the MVP
Posted on 1/5/19 at 7:45 am to goatmilker
Posted on 1/5/19 at 7:45 am to goatmilker
quote:
RANK TEAM STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE
1 Green Bay Packers .539
T-2 New Orleans Saints .535
T-2 Detroit Lions .535
4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers .531
T-5 Cleveland Browns .523
T-5 Seattle Seahawks .523
T-5 Los Angeles Rams .523
T-8 Chicago Bears .520
T-8 Minnesota Vikings .520
T-8 New York Giants .520
T-8 Arizona Cardinals .520
12 Carolina Panthers .512
13 Atlanta Falcons .508
14 Washington Redskins .504
T-15 San Francisco 49ers .500
T-15 Miami Dolphins .500
T-15 Dallas Cowboys .500
18 Buffalo Bills .496
T-19 Philadelphia Eagles .492
T-19 Kansas City Chiefs .492
21
Saints 2nd hardest schedule and Chiefs 19th yet the Chiefs faced more playoff teams and more of them on the road. Let’s take a deeper look at the teams they played that finished the season with a winning record and where they played them.
Chiefs
@LAC - playoffs
@LAR - playoffs
@NE - playoffs
@SEA - playoffs
@PITT
BAL - playoffs
LAC - playoffs
6 playoff games (4 away - 2 at home)
Saints
@BAL - playoffs
@ DAL - playoffs
@MIN
LAR - playoffs
PHL - playoffs
PITT
4 playoff games ( 2 away - 2 at home)
1
Posted on 1/5/19 at 7:49 am to Dunk47
quote:
But it was given to Rodgers because of his QB rating 122.5
List the rest of Rodgers stats for that season.
Then Mahomes rating this year.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 8:03 am to BobBoucher
quote:
Because he threw for 5k and 50 fricking touchdowns. That is why.
Sounds impressive. As a Chiefs fan living in KC, I watched most of their games.
Mahomes was flipping the ball to wide open guys like Kelce and Hill who didn’t have anyone within 10 yards and would run for another 20 yards while Brees was making impossible throws in to tight contested windows all year. And Brees managed 1 INT most of the year.
Gaudy stats say Mahomes. If you watch the games, Brees work is much more impressive.
As a Chiefs and Saints fan I have to agree to disagree. Both teams have weapons. What would a Saints be like without Kamara for 6 games? We saw what happened when Ingram was out. Damien Williams who is a 3rd stringer has looked like a pro bowler since Hunts absense. Saints have weapons. Maybe not a pro bowl TE but the have a AP WR. Regardless, you make it seem like Mahomes is just dumping the ball off to constant wide open players. Mahomes has extended plays with his ability to escape the pocket and throw darts in stride to those players. Hill and Kelce totaled 28 TDs. 22 more to other players. Both QBs threw TDs to 12+ players on their team this year. Mahomes has faced the 8th toughest QB schedule while Brees has faced the 3rd easiest. Mainly bc his tough games have been at home. Both teams clinched #1 seed. In Mahomes 4 losses he avg 37ppg while their defense avg 41ppg in their losses. To say Mahomes lost any games for the Chiefs is absurd. Saints beat the Panthers on the road without a below avg Brees statline (No TDs) Brees threw 0 TDS in 2 games and 1 TD in 4 games. If Mahomes had a statline like that in any of their games they lose because their defense is last in the league. Brees is an MVP no doubt and is the GOAT. Brees 3 game below avg stat line killed his chance. The Saints even went 2-1 in that stretch bc of great D. Does it really matter though? Newton and Ryan both have an MVP. That proves nothing. Super Bowl is the only thing that matters and Brees has that the MVP for it.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 8:10 am to sicboy
quote:
But it was given to Rodgers because of his QB rating 122.5
List the rest of Rodgers stats for that season.
Then Mahomes rating this year.
In 2011 Brees threw interceptions in critical moments in losses against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and St. Louis Rams.
Rodgers had more to do with the Green Bay Packers' wins than Brees had to do with the New Orleans Saints' victories.
Why? Because the Packers were more reliant on Rodgers due to the lack of a rushing attack. The Saints averaged 4.9 yards per carry 2011 season (fifth in the NFL) while the Packers averaged 3.9 yards per carry (27th). At least that’s what they were saying in 2011 when they awarded it to AR
Manning the only QB to throw 50/5,000 in the same season received 49/50 votes. Mahomes now the second player to do that. He just received 45/50 AP first team votes
Posted on 1/5/19 at 8:35 am to SelaTiger
Brees should have won it over Manning in ‘09. That shouldn’t have been a debate.
But if Mahomes gets it this year, I understand why. Each has a case for it and it’s not a lock for either IMHO.
That said, I’d rather a Super Bowl MVP for sure!
But if Mahomes gets it this year, I understand why. Each has a case for it and it’s not a lock for either IMHO.
That said, I’d rather a Super Bowl MVP for sure!
Posted on 1/5/19 at 9:26 am to Suntiger
quote:
Brees should have won it over Manning in ‘09. That shouldn’t have been a debate.
Exactly. Manning won it on name recognition only. It was absolute robbery.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 9:27 am to lemonheads25
Chiefs 2-4... losing to them doesn’t help
Posted on 1/5/19 at 9:45 am to sicboy
quote:
List the rest of Rodgers stats for that season. Then Mahomes rating this year.
2011 Rodgers:
4643yds 45tds 6ints 1.2%int
122.5rating
2011 Brees:
5476yds 46tds 14ints 2.1%int
110.6rating
2018 Brees:
3992yds 32tds 5ints 1.0%int 115.7rating
2018 Mahomes:
5097yds 50tds 12ints 2.1%int 113.8rating
2011 Brees and 2018 Mahomes are very similar.
Mahomes had a remarkable season.
My argument is Rodgers got his because of rating and efficiency and Brees’ stats were overlooked.
Now Brees’ efficiency and rating is being overlooked for stats.
That is inconsistent but just what I think. I don’t get to vote on it. I much rather a Saints super bowl victory.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 10:15 am to sicboy
quote:
Common opponents:
Mahomes throws a lot of interceptions.
But it's hard to argue with 5000 yards and 50 TDs. It's just a shame that out of all the times Brees threw for 5000 yards, someone else was always a little better. Or were they?
Posted on 1/5/19 at 11:45 am to Dunk47
quote:
2011 Brees and 2018 Mahomes are very similar. Mahomes had a remarkable season. My argument is Rodgers got his because of rating and efficiency and Brees’ stats were overlooked. Now Brees’ efficiency and rating is being overlooked for stats.
Yes but if we’re being objective 2018 Mahomes is better than 2011 Brees just as 2011 rodgers season is MUCH better than 2018 Brees season.
The problem for Drew is the numbers gap between the “stats guy” and “efficient guy” is much wider in 2018 than it was in 2011
Posted on 1/5/19 at 12:28 pm to lemonheads25
quote:
As a Chiefs and Saints fan I have to agree to disagree. Both teams have weapons. What would a Saints be like without Kamara for 6 games? We saw what happened when Ingram was out. Damien Williams who is a 3rd stringer has looked like a pro bowler since Hunts absense. Saints have weapons. Maybe not a pro bowl TE but the have a AP WR
KC also has a 1st team all pro "Flex" is pretty much saying an all pro WR/RB. That guy was also 2nd team WR too. Skills positions for KC > NOLA's
quote:
Regardless, you make it seem like Mahomes is just dumping the ball off to constant wide open players. Mahomes has extended plays with his ability to escape the pocket and throw darts in stride to those players. Hill and Kelce totaled 28 TDs. 22 more to other players. Both QBs threw TDs to 12+ players on their team this year.
For every play that he extended, there's a play that one of those 3 (Hunt, Hill, Kelce) took it from the LOS for a TD. We had the joy of having to watch him in prime time A LOT this season. Mahomes made some damn good plays, but he racks up YAC thanks to those players. Don't act as if he's escaping and throwing a 50 yard strike downfield every play.
KC: 5126 passing yards, 2524 YAC (49.2% of the yards were YAC).
NOLA: 4174 passing yards, 1867 YAC (44.7% of the yards were YAC).
quote:
Mahomes has faced the 8th toughest QB schedule while Brees has faced the 3rd easiest. Mainly bc his tough games have been at home.
Sure. Where's the #s on that. Based on what, yards?
quote:
In Mahomes 4 losses he avg 37ppg while their defense avg 41ppg in their losses. To say Mahomes lost any games for the Chiefs is absurd.
He lost them two games for sure.
Mahomes vs NE: 43 to 40 - Mahomes with 2 INTs that led to a 10 point swing. 1st INT: NE 4 yard TD (7), 2nd INT: On NE15, throws an INT to end the half. Costs them 3 points
That makes the difference
Mahomes vs LA: 54 to 41 - Mahomes with 3 INTs and 2 Fumbles.
1. Fumble Return for TD (7)
2. Fumble #2. LA Rams turns around 8 plays, 46 yards - TD (7)
3. Interception Return for TD (7)
Down 3
4. Interception, LA Rams runs the clock and punts
5. Interception, Ends game
He directly led to 21 points for LA Rams and with 2 potentially winning or tying drives, he turns it over. TWICE. Mahomes Costed them: 2
quote:
Both teams clinched #1 seed. In Mahomes 4 losses he avg 37ppg while their defense avg 41ppg in their losses. To say Mahomes lost any games for the Chiefs is absurd. Saints beat the Panthers on the road without a below avg Brees statline (No TDs) Brees threw 0 TDS in 2 games and 1 TD in 4 games. If Mahomes had a statline like that in any of their games they lose because their defense is last in the league.
Where's the defense of Brees in previous years for that then? Because KC's defense has not been as bad as the record setting NOLA defenses.
You could also argue the big play offense puts a strain on the defense. Instead of relying on a steady run game that drains time, they go for the big play from the QB who can sling it.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 1:37 pm to htran90
quote:
KC also has a 1st team all pro "Flex" is pretty much saying an all pro WR/RB. That guy was also 2nd team WR too. Skills positions for KC > NOLA's
Tyreek wasn’t AP last year, and this year he was bc of Mahomes ability to hit him in stride. Something Alex Smith struggles to do. No doubt KC has skill players but to make this point you can’t argue Brees doesn’t have the same. Ingram, Kamara, and Thomas are all legit.
quote:
For every play that he extended, there's a play that one of those 3 (Hunt, Hill, Kelce) took it from the LOS for a TD. We had the joy of having to watch him in prime time A LOT this season. Mahomes made some damn good plays, but he racks up YAC thanks to those players. Don't act as if he's escaping and throwing a 50 yard strike downfield every play.
KC: 5126 passing yards, 2524 YAC (49.2% of the yards were YAC).
NOLA: 4174 passing yards, 1867 YAC (44.7% of the yards were YAC).
I’ve watched every snap of Mahomes and he does most of his damage outside of the pocket. He prefers to play the backyard football bc he is able to see the field and it gives his skill players more time to get open. He does this more often then you think.
quote:
Sure. Where's the #s on that. Based on what, yards?
LINK
Numbers now reflect Mahomes #1 difficulty and Brees #32
quote:
He lost them two games for sure.
Mahomes vs NE: 43 to 40 - Mahomes with 2 INTs that led to a 10 point swing. 1st INT: NE 4 yard TD (7), 2nd INT: On NE15, throws an INT to end the half. Costs them 3 points
That makes the difference
Mahomes vs LA: 54 to 41 - Mahomes with 3 INTs and 2 Fumbles.
1. Fumble Return for TD (7)
2. Fumble #2. LA Rams turns around 8 plays, 46 yards - TD (7)
3. Interception Return for TD (7)
Down 3
4. Interception, LA Rams runs the clock and punts
5. Interception, Ends game
He directly led to 21 points for LA Rams and with 2 potentially winning or tying drives, he turns it over. TWICE. Mahomes Costed them: 2
No way I can agree with this. Did you watch the games? The simple fact that he posted 91 points, 830 passing yards, and 10 touchdowns in those two losses!!! Those losses go to the defense giving up 95 points in the games. Here is another way of looking at it. When the Chiefs needed Mahomes to score a TD to take the lead...he did. Down 10 in NE and took the lead only to have Brady run out the clock on the last possession for a FG. Same thing in LA. Took the lead and the D couldn’t hold last drive. Watch it again.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 6:49 pm to sicboy
quote:2009 called.
but these awards are rarely about anything but stats, regardless of what the award implies.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 6:55 pm to Dunk47
quote:This is a bad example IMO.
The problem with Mahomes winning it this year because of his yards and TDs is that Brees did that in 2011.
5476 yds, 46 TDs, 14 INTs, 13-3 record
But it was given to Rodgers because of his QB rating 122.5
Shoulda went with 2009.
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